I feel as though I suck at guitar

[Ethan]

So lately I am practicing way more lately, trying to build up speed and technique. I've been playing for a while but haven't tried to sit down and do this properly since I was in high school. I'm working with a metronome a lot and doing stuff the way I *think* is the right way, but I still just can't get that really fast alternate picking stuff down. Is this how it is? Do you just work with a metronome for forever until you can finally do it? I'm not getting discouraged really but I just don't really know anyone who plays the way I am aiming towards so I don't have anyone to ask really. Thanks for any responses in advance.

[Feynman]

Yes, go slow to go fast, or something like that. I think.

Of course, I can't play worth a damn, so weigh that into my response.

[atquinn]

IMHO, "building speed" is an activity best left to highschoolers and other people that don't have real lives to lead. If you only have a few hours a day, do you really want to spend half of it playing mind-numbing exercises to a metronome? If the answer is yes, keep at it and you should see results in time. If you're able you might want to post a video of yourself running through some exercises on Youtube. That way people that know what they're doing (not myself ) could weigh in on any technical shortcomings they see. I've pretty much given up on being able to play "fast" myself. I try to focus on other areas myself since I think impressive players separate themselve from the pack based on note/rhythm choice and "subtler" techniques (vibrato for example) as opposed to speed. Of course, that stuff is a bitch to learn too! But I find it more rewarding and easier to apply to "actual" playing.

-

Austin

[anotherfreak]

Drop me a line on what you are working on and I'll try to give some advise.

When I have been frustrated myself, it is usually beceause I didn't have clear goals, or I was working on too many things at once. That doesn't make it any less frustrating, Speed is developed over time, and is a by-product of having rehearsed something alot.

Try playing with Jam along tracks, use chord changes to play scales, lines and phrases over. Sometimes a backing track can inspire better playing that the tick tick of the metronome. It doesn't always mean hours in the woodshed, but a real focused approach to what you are really trying to learn. Sometimes students are frustrated that they can't play something fast, and it's usually before they really have the lick/phrase/scale down. There the speed is not the goal, but they focus on the speed rather than learning the phrase. The speed will come, you only fail when you strop trying (I can't believe I just said that)

let me know If I can help,

bill

edited 'cause my spelin' sux

[Ethan]

Thanks guys...I think I am doing ok but I just wonder how long this should take I guess. Speed is just one area that I'm trying to conscientiously work on, and I don't even mean the shredder type stuff necessarily...I'd love to be able to sit down with one of the bluegrass players I know and have them show me a few licks, and actually be able to play them right off! I guess in the end I just want to be able to play things the way I hear them in my head, so I am trying to get my technique to where I can do that.

[gorch]

My experience is that trying something at best and concentrating on it, supported by a metronome i.e., it definitely won't work.

You've got to forget about what your are actually doing, slacken the reins and open your mind. Then, it will work alone at some time. Give it a pause for a week and pick it up again to give your brain a chance to adapt.

[mathman]

Can I just add that I suck too?

I gave up speed.

[BlueRedWhite]

So lately I am practicing way more lately, trying to build up speed and technique. I've been playing for a while but haven't tried to sit down and do this properly since I was in high school. I'm working with a metronome a lot and doing stuff the way I *think* is the right way, but I still just can't get that really fast alternate picking stuff down. Is this how it is? Do you just work with a metronome for forever until you can finally do it? I'm not getting discouraged really but I just don't really know anyone who plays the way I am aiming towards so I don't have anyone to ask really. Thanks for any responses in advance.

I'm right now at a similar situation. I started playing at 9 years old, and i remember it was so easy and fast when i got to learn something.

I'm in my 30s now, and it looks so slow. What i've found out it that you need to warm up your fingers and then warm up on the guitar. It takes patience and dedication, and without noticing you'll get it

Most important: have fun and be consistent. I don't play with a metronome, i play with a drumm loop.

Right now, i don't thing i'm slower because i'm older, i believe that we have grown to expect quick results, and just forgot that when i was a child i didn't have a family or a job to take care of and had all the time to practice.

[zenmindbeginner]

My experience is that trying something at best and concentrating on it, supported by a metronome i.e., it definitely won't work.

You've got to forget about what your are actually doing, slacken the reins and open your mind. Then, it will work alone at some time. Give it a pause for a week and pick it up again to give your brain a chance to adapt.

I HIGHLY agree! Left brained thinking will not allow the fastest learning, the right brain needs to somehow see the big picture of the riff and how to play it properly before it is actually "learned". Metronomes work great for lead playing but suck the life out of practicing rhythm.

You don't get better while you play, but you get better while you sleep. it's just the way that the brain does it's construction (neurogenesis). The muscles, tendons and ligaments also need to get stronger as well as the skin of the fingers.

If one really wants to get better, they will practice until the skin's integrity starts to get compromised and a break is imminent if one pushes any further. Stop then and take a couple of days off, wait until your fingers heal and try the riff again. You will find that your hands will be stronger and your fingers capable of much more force which will allow you to tackle the riff with a lot more ease. Callouses need to be thick and one should get some emery boards to smooth out the edges where the new skin meets the old callous.

Learn to play guitar in your head, there is a virtual guitar program that exists in every good guitarists brain and they can try new riffs without actually touching an instrument... it's just a mental visualization of the fretboard and the string layout... your right brain will handle the fretting hand and the left brain will handle the picking hand (reverse if you're a lefty). I find that if I can't play it in my "virtual guitar" section of my brain, then I can't play it in real life.

I have been playing since 1985 and I still run scales and practice my speed. I am also not shy about seeking guidance and am gonna get some lessons from HRC's very own Brooks (very good player) to learn some theory and cool licks.

Being self taught only goes so far... now if you are a reincarnated musician, then that might not apply, because you can spend a lifetime uncovering the musical memories of your past existence and might not ever need structured lessons.

[gorch]

Listen Ethan

- become a Zen-Mind-Professional!

[geoff_hartwell]

I play (and teach) for a living, and I practice with a metronome every day. Use it or lose it, Bro.

Identify your goals and take the steps to get there.

Always stretch at the beginning to get the blood flowing. Start with big joints and big movements (whole body-neck, back, shoulders, then arms, wrists, fingers) and NO whipping of the wrists EVER.

If the bluegrass guys are what turns you on presently, I recommend studying with someone you already know is a great player. Learn all your 5 major pentatonic boxes (in every key all over the neck, and common sequences), and the major and dominant chord arpeggios within them (C-A-G-E-D forms inside the maj pent boxes) and where likely chromatic connections occur (2, to #2, to 3. 3 up to 5. 5 up to b7 etc).

Practice all musical things, rather than including "symetrical fingering"-type stuff that you don't have a use for. Start slower than you need to, focusing on economy of motion and comfortable posture.

That having been said, all new movements are uncomfortable at the beginning, but you'll get there.

The vast majority of bluegrass focuses more on major and dominant chords, less on minor, m7, diminished, aug, etc. Also in Bluegrass, if you're flatpicking, you'll typically be in the first position and/or using a capo, but all of these CAGED forms will stand you in good stead, when you're playing over more chords and different keys, I promise. Practice these approaches over the chord progressions to the common Bluegrass songs and progressions.

There's also a shitload to be learned from instructional books, cds and dvds like "50 bluegrass licks" or "Flatpicking power" or something like that.

If you have any specific questions, I'd be glad to post another thread.

PRACTICE MAKES PROGRESS!

Geoff

[specialk]

Start with big joints

The secret to my success,

[Ethan]

Geoff your response is exactly what I was looking for. I think a big part of my problem is that I don't know a lot of theory, so I don't really know where to direct my left hand to go. I'm trying to teach all of this stuff myself right now, I'd love to take lessons but I just don't have the time or money right now. If you had time to start another thread with stuff like this then that would be awesome. Thanks again!

[Siaip Ciuvas]

yeah, speed must be maintained. I remember Satriani interview, when he said he has to get back in shape to be able to play some of his stuff after he gets back from seaside vacation. Just work on it, every day without fail.

I gave up on this

[Brooks]

Practice all musical things, rather than including "symetrical fingering"-type stuff that you don't have a use for.

hmmm. geoff, i dunno if this is in referrence to some of the lessons i've posted (i hope not).

symetrical fingerings ARE useful, easy to learn and teach, and are a quick way for someone stuck in the blues box to play outside, which is why i posted them. i never inferred that they were all that one needed to know about guitar and theory.

[atquinn]

Practice all musical things, rather than including "symetrical fingering"-type stuff that you don't have a use for.

hmmm. geoff, i dunno if this is in referrence to some of the lessons i've posted (i hope not).

symetrical fingerings ARE useful, easy to learn and teach, and are a quick way for someone stuck in the blues box to play outside, which is why i posted them. i never inferred that they were all that one needed to know about guitar and theory.

I think Geoff was referring to the whole "1234 across every string then up a fret"-type routines, not your stuff. Although, since I "came-of-age" musically in the 80's, even the 1234 stuff sounds ok to me as long as it's played at blinding speed

-

Austin

[geoff_hartwell]

Practice all musical things, rather than including "symetrical fingering"-type stuff that you don't have a use for.

hmmm. geoff, i dunno if this is in referrence to some of the lessons i've posted (i hope not).

symetrical fingerings ARE useful, easy to learn and teach, and are a quick way for someone stuck in the blues box to play outside, which is why i posted them. i never inferred that they were all that one needed to know about guitar and theory.

Woah... First off, Brooks- you're my Bro, and I would never shit on you like that. It was a mistake for me to use the words symmetrical fingerings, but please don't get too riled up. The quotations were not trying to imply any reference to you or your posts. Austin is right on the money- I try to steer folks away from isometric exercizes that focus on shape - disconnected from notes and context- AT THE EXPENSE of learning harmony (like that bloody 1-2-3-4-fret exercise! But even that can be applied to the chromatic scale, and used to approach/connect chord tones, etc). ALL of the things that you've posted have lots of musical value and can be applied in plenty of cool ways.

And as far as anything under the sun being "all that one needed to know about guitar and theory", does that exist? Those are definitely not my words, and I would never accuse you of that.

All I tried to offer was some concrete ways for Ethan to move toward his stated goals, given what information he had volunteered.

Geoff

[Caddie]

Ty Webb said it best;

"There's a force in the universe that makes things happen and all you have to do is get in touch with it.

Stop thinking, let things happen and be the ball guitar."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo0baknLDdU

Where'd it go?

Right in the lumberyard...

caddie

[Ethan]

I'll bet you have a lot of nice ties, Ty.

[Caddie]

Ethan, take some lessons from a good instructor and you could find yourself shredding away in THIS band:

caddie

[zenmindbeginner]

Brooks gave me my first lesson yesterday and he is flippin' AMAZING! He taught me all sorts of good stuff like: finger exercises to develop my speed and accuracy, the chromatic scale (normal and symmetrical fingerings), minor and major triads and the augmenting and diminishing thereof, Diminished Arpeggios, and some improvisation with all of the stuff that he was teaching. Hell, I didn't even know what a proper major scale was... I have always just used my eyes and ears to know which notes were wrong and which were correct as far as soloing and improvisation went. This was relegating me to the pentatonic scale and some miniscule derivations when trying to express myself when I played lead.

Now Brooks is unlocking the entire fretboard for me. I am 36 and haven't had a lesson since I was a teenager and those lessons were just learning songs, not any real theory or scales to speak of.

You can teach an old dog new tricks, but I guess that is the whole point of being a zen mind beginner.

[Feynman]

I suck at guitar.

I like Brooks.

[mathman]

I suck at guitar.

I like Brooks.

Feynman says this best!

[Rocktuna]

I can play the most complex, intricate runs, scales, arpeggios ect at blazing speed. I only need to hear it once and I have it down. I have perfect pitch and memory.

I'm good looking and hung like a moose too.

PS: I'm also a compulsive liar..........................................I suck

[cynic]

I would get bored with playing fairly quickly if I could pick up the guitar and play anything I wanted. As it stands, after 30 years of playing I've got nearly as many challenges ahead of me now as when I started.

[Brooks]

thanx geoff, mitch, & zen.