mirrorimij Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Anything built by Jol will be truer to the classic Hamer way of building than anything produced by an FMIC revival of the brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfish7 Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Jol won't build you a Hamer Standard..........But point taken I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcsride Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 What models will he build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfeel Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 actually I am not sure he won't. there is at least one person here on the forum who has spoke to Jol about the possibility and he seemed open to the idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfish7 Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 actually I am not sure he won't. there is at least one person here on the forum who has spoke to Jol about the possibility and he seemed open to the idea... I am absolutely certain he will not build you a Hamer Standard, at least not anytime soon. If ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorrow Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 actually I am not sure he won't. there is at least one person here on the forum who has spoke to Jol about the possibility and he seemed open to the idea...Who that? Greg? Because Greg has been posting somewhere else (won't tell) about the idea of building guitars the Hamer way, but with of course a different logo on the headstock. I'm 100% for that, provided the price tag is right. Hey! What if we make the 50 custom guitars wishlist for him? That will demonstrate the market for those 50 guitars is there, so Greg might just proceed -and I don't care wether Jol is or not involved.BTW, if someone sees a dealer selling a post-Y2K korina or mahogany Vector with a vintage neck profile for less than 2.5K, please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCChris Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 provided the price tag is rightAnd that's always what it boils down to. Champagne dreams on a seltzer water budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthes Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I also highly doubt Greg is talking to Jol about such a venture after the way he has posted here about him - doesn't appear to be a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorrow Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 provided the price tag is rightAnd that's always what it boils down to. Champagne dreams on a seltzer water budget.Not really. It boils down to not getting screwed, that's all. As far as I understood, Greg's idea is offering Hamer-like quality while eliminating intermediaries. That should (and must) put the prices at a reasonable level for both sides -the builder and the customer. I'm personally not into 3-ply binding, victory inlays, premium tops, etc. I don't event want a Floyd. So, a well-built-but-basic guitar like that should remain at a fair price. Quality does have a price and the builder's job does deserve our respect, but prices have to make sense to the buyer as well, or else, those guitars won't sell, period. Respect has to be mutual, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorch Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 provided the price tag is rightAnd that's always what it boils down to. Champagne dreams on a seltzer water budget.Not really. It boils down to not getting screwed, that's all. As far as I understood, Greg's idea is offering Hamer-like quality while eliminating intermediaries. That should (and must) put the prices at a reasonable level for both sides -the builder and the customer. I'm personally not into 3-ply binding, victory inlays, premium tops, etc. I don't event want a Floyd. So, a well-built-but-basic guitar like that should remain at a fair price. Quality does have a price and the builder's job does deserve our respect, but prices have to make sense to the buyer as well, or else, those guitars won't sell, period. Respect has to be mutual, after all.There are a lot of guitars available on the market to fill any needs. Quality sure is a topic to stay in the competition. Finally, it will be the brand story what will drive people buying. The brand needs to drive emotions and have to be present, be in discussion. The overall story needs to be adjusted just right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfeel Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 actually I am not sure he won't. there is at least one person here on the forum who has spoke to Jol about the possibility and he seemed open to the idea...I am absolutely certain he will not build you a Hamer Standard, at least not anytime soon. If ever. Touche' if it happens it will be a Dantzig branded variant of the guitar affectionately known as the Standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCChris Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Not really. It boils down to not getting screwed, that's all.Let's do away with the notion that anyone in the history of the universe has ever gotten screwed by paying a price they agreed to for an item, and subsequently receiving that item in flawless condition and in perfect working order. A business has the absolute right to charge whatever they want for a good or service, factoring in what they feel they need to earn for providing it and (ideally) taking into account prevailing market forces. Maybe a little negotiation would be nice for a custom run of something, but it's not obligatory. When people start in with stuff like "getting screwed" and "respect," it's an indication of a lowballer mentality. Don't like how much it costs? Don't buy it. But not getting a price you like for a luxury item never has constituted nor ever will constitute "getting screwed." It's in these instances where I'm actually a fan of the Jol Dantzig/Soup Nazi business model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorrow Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Not really. It boils down to not getting screwed, that's all. Let's do away with the notion that anyone in the history of the universe has ever gotten screwed by paying a price they agreed to for an item, and subsequently receiving that item in flawless condition and in perfect working order. A business has the absolute right to charge whatever they want for a good or service, factoring in what they feel they need to earn for providing it and (ideally) taking into account prevailing market forces. Maybe a little negotiation would be nice for a custom run of something, but it's not obligatory. When people start in with stuff like "getting screwed" and "respect," it's an indication of a lowballer mentality. Don't like how much it costs? Don't buy it. But not getting a price you like for a luxury item never has constituted nor ever will constitute "getting screwed." It's in these instances where I'm actually a fan of the Jol Dantzig/Soup Nazi business model. Well, that's exactly the reason why I never purchased a brand new Hamer. Prices were too high according to the way I see things. But good for you if you were willing to pay them. We both don't have to agree on what "being screwed" means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcsride Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 My sense, is there is no way this would happen. Also, I think $4K is too low. I know that is a lot of money, but for a production run of 50, there would be a lot of fixed costs expended that would have to recouped over only 50 units. I think $6k is more like it. And it will be hard to get 50 CO at $6K. And, I won't be one of them ( ) O.K. let me just come clean. I am not a Standard kind of guy - please don't ban me. Oh yeah, and I'm not a $6K for a guitar kind of guy either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfeel Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 What is the motivation for an order? Are there really people who would like to have a custom built Explorer style guitar made with the kind of craftsmanship we have come to know and love, or is it a challenge to see if a company that has been put to rest can some how be resurrected? If it is the former, someone mentioned inquiring with Jol to see if he could do the deal. If not him, then there has to be at least a half-dozen builders who would love the business. If it is the latter, best wishes for sure :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo175 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 While I don't regret a penny of the tidy sum I spent on my custom Cali, I can see where it would be prohibitive to others. Oddly enough, of the 3 "true" custom shop guitars I (will) own, the most I've spent on a guitar was for a so-called custom shop Gibson that really can't stand up to the others in just about every category.In short, I paid for the name and the privilege of owning a one of 3 run. And while that's anecdotal, I'm sure Gibson has moved a shit raft of units due largely to their history and rep. With Hamer having dwindled in the public spotlight over the last 15 years prior to FMIC pulling the plug, I doubt they could ever manage to have enough recognition to warrant getting non- HFCers to line up with 6 K in hand for a Standard or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
django49 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 actually I am not sure he won't. there is at least one person here on the forum who has spoke to Jol about the possibility and he seemed open to the idea...I am absolutely certain he will not build you a Hamer Standard, at least not anytime soon. If ever. Touche' if it happens it will be a Dantzig branded variant of the guitar affectionately known as the Standard. So, the "Dantzdard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfeel Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I think you are on to something there Django Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
django49 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 On to something......Or maybe just ON something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthes Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Here's the deal...I highly doubt that more than a couple of people here (or elsewhere) are going to pony up $5-$6k for a "Standard-like" guitar that DOESN'T have "Hamer USA" on the headstock. That's more than the originals regularly sell for.There are dozens of talented builders out there right now doing dead-to-nuts '59 LP and '50s Korina style guitars and charging decent money for them, but they are all flavor-of-the-month builders on TGP or one of the various LP forums, and at the end of the day, the only things that are bringing the real money are the exact replicas of guitars that cost $100k or more. Those iconic Gibson models also have a HUGE international fan base, so there is a greater demand for replicas of the unattainable going on there. Hamers are a pretty thin slice of a niche market, and I simply can't see a copy/replica of a Hamer guitar bringing that kind of dough.Please let me know who here (or anywhere, for that matter) will pay $4 - $6k for an "Authentic Four Digit Reissue" without the Hamer name (or a no-name), when REAL 4-digit Standards in clean condition are selling in that price range?If more than 2 people speak up, color me extremely surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcsride Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 My sense, is there is no way this would happen. Also, I think $4K is too low. I know that is a lot of money, but for a production run of 50, there would be a lot of fixed costs expended that would have to recouped over only 50 units. I think $6k is more like it. And it will be hard to get 50 CO at $6K. And, I won't be one of them ( ) O.K. let me just come clean. I am not a Standard kind of guy - please don't ban me. Oh yeah, and I'm not a $6K for a guitar kind of guy either. Looking through the new GC circular this morning. $6K would not be the price point. They have (street price) Fender master built basses at $6K+ and PRS fancy gits at $9999. I think the price Fender would do it for would be more than $6K . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feynman Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I haven't read the whole thread, but where do I sign up? I'm ready to buy a new Hamer now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichRS6 Posted November 19, 2013 Author Share Posted November 19, 2013 I keep thinking I should get the admins to lock this thread but now Mitch is on board Fender would be completely dumb not to cave in. Seriously though, as much as it would be great to make this happen it's never going to happen now. Perhaps if I'd thought it up earlier (before they stopped taking custom orders and all the wood and tooling was redistributed) there might have been a chance. If nothing else it proves there would have been a market for a final run (of Standards) so it wasn't a totally dumb suggestion just totally dumb that Hamer/Fenders marketing department didn't realise it and do something about it when they decided to end production. Shouldn't be too surprised that the bean counters in FMIC have no idea what a great product they had. If it was clear that Hamer was actually closing down its US operations and there would be no more USA models (I just thought the custom shop was closing) then I would have had more incentive to place an order (or 10). If it's over then it's over and I can only kick myself and enjoy the Hamers I have already (and keep a look out for more). As others have mentioned there are plenty of custom shops out there who would be willing to build me whatever I want but I would be unlikely to want a Hamer copy. Even if somewhere down the line Hamer does restart US production I doubt it will be the same bunch of guys doing the work so I'm not holding my breath until then. It's not just a guitar I want it's the quality and heritage, built by insane(ly) skilled craftsmen. I will really miss the pics from the workshop when the final one is completed and would like to say a big thank you to all those who toiled to produce such awesome instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velorush Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I haven't read the whole thread, but where do I sign up? I'm ready to buy a new Hamer Studebaker Avanti now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCChris Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Seriously though, as much as it would be great to make this happen it's never going to happen now.Perhaps if I'd thought it up earlier (before they stopped taking custom orders and all the wood and tooling was redistributed) there might have been a chance.If nothing else it proves there would have been a market for a final run (of Standards) so it wasn't a totally dumb suggestion just totally dumb that Hamer/Fenders marketing department didn't realise it and do something about it when they decided to end production.First two lines: pretty much what everyone has been saying all along.Third line: this thread proves nothing of the sort. Huge difference between internet bluster and actually plunking down dineros to the tune of several thousand dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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