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becoming familiar with Hamer


gmaslin

Question

Hello everyone. I recently played an SFX and liked it very much but was told they were not the best or most versatile Hamer so naturally, I became curious and ended up here. So. let's start with a feature set:

1. tapered/slim neck heel for easing high fret play and headstocks that don't angle strings to the nut.

2. great sound versatility that is coherent and familiar (ie: I hate most fat strats and prefer serial wired singles)

3. I prefer single coils but have played some very convincing split humbuckers so will not rule them out with a split circuit

4. I would like a generally high standard of build quality with action as low as I want it and comfortable, well seated edges

Now that I've described what I want, what should I be looking at?

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Just read this thread and I feel like a fool for wasting all my hard earned money on USA Hamers. In all sincerity, do you really think that the labor differential is the difference between a several hundred dollar vs several thousand dollar guitar? Forget the facts and the corroboration, if you can convince yourself that an import is almost the equal of a USA Hamer, that's what you should play. I have a very well informed sense of value as well as appreciation for it. It is immediately and undeniably apparent to me that there are significant differences.YMMV best of luck with your choice.

ArnieZ

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Cmatthes

I find it hard to believe that the same model US and Asian guitars have no parts in common. What is the authority of your source? Who will corroborate that claim?

Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame

That post answers many of my questions and I appreciate the effort. You definitely hit the mark when it comes to identifying my desired guitar 'ethic' of function over flash. Those guitars look very comfortable to play but can they get me the wonderful tone I described earlier? What pickups are in the SFX Hamer Specials and do the other Specials (ie: Slammers) also have them?

I have single coil 'S' type guitars with serial/parallel switching that get me a pretty wide tonal palette but still sound like it is the same guitar. I don't really like schizo type shredders that mix humbuckers and single coils because they mostly sound confused and invariably have duplicated, unusable or missing tones. The pickup position should give you the sound you expect. I haven't tried the Yamahas you suggested but have played Ibanez in the same or similar configuration and that is what I have based this impression on. This is not an ill particular only to H-S-H or H-S-S configurations, I've played US Strats and other 'quality' guitars that exhibit this same kind of incoherence. The pickups should be able to reproduce the following basic sounds without effects:

1. sharp staccato (think funk and country quack)

2. smooth high pitches (not shrill and not muted but like a soprano aria)

3. glass like middle tones with piano depth and range (think Robert Cray)

4. authoritative mellow tones (think big round relaxed blues with bite)

A good guitar should do these basic sounds without struggling or sounding confused. Naturally, there are guitars that excel in any one these basic sounds but I refuse to have a herd of instruments. My absolute limit is 5 guitars and when you consider two are acoustic (6 and 12 string) that leaves just three for amplification. That is why I am so particular about what I want. I don't have the space or inclination to collect every one trick pony. Ideally, I would like my three guitars to do the basic sounds in their own particular voice like a singer doing different styles but all three having the chops to do what is asked of them. Sorry about the metaphorisms but I really did want to describe what I want so everyone reading could understand it. I hope I did a good job of it.

I really like Yamaha's stock pickups.

For the higher-end Yamahas (anything 6xx and above), they have excellent flexibility. Most have a coil-tap push-push or switch. The rest have auto-taps in the 2/4 position.

So on my PAc 721s and PAC 921, I get a great thick humbucker sound in the bridge, a creamy humbucker solo sound in the neck, a noiseless single coil in the middle position (they all have stacked single coils), and a really good quack sound in the bridge+middle and neck+middle positions. That's every sound I could ask for.

With my SE 612 and PAC 604, the humbucker sounds really good tapped, so I can get every possible sound on it. Again, great quack sounds in the 2/4, great individual single coil sounds, and a brash humbucker in the bridge for rock when I want it.

But tone is SOOOOO personal. I could tell you I get the sharp staccatos, the smooth high pitches, the glass-like piano tones and the authoritative mellow tones, and then you could pick up the same guitar and use the same amps on the same setting and tell me I'm full of crap.

I will say that the one thing I really like about Yamaha guitars, especially with their own pickups or the models with Dimarzios, they have a really good distorted humbucker sound...very menacing...distorted without being overly harsh or raspy, but then round and full when clean.

And the humbuckers all seem to tap to very credible strat sounds. Sounds great for funk, for blues, for country...

But because tone is personal, I was recommending the Yamahas for the structure and price. You can swap out a set of pickups easier than you can shave down a neck joint heel. So I figured if you got a great quality, well-built guitar with the reduced heel and easy upper range access you want, you can use the non-spent cash to experiment with what pickups you want in it to get EXACTLY what you want.

I do think however, that if you liked the tone on an import Hamer, you'll like anything from a USA Hamer or Yamaha better. It's not that the Indonesian guitar makers are horrible, just that they get paid by the number of guitars they produce, and they aren't putting top quality effort to bring the best out of top quality materials. They are doing the absolute minimum necessary to assemble computer cut blanks into an acceptable guitar at the cheapest total price. Sometimes they produce a miracle. But I would prefer to go with the people that put more effort into polishing a diamond into a truly beautiful gem.

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.... For the record, I happen to know for a fact that some allegedly "USA" pickups were produced in Asia.......

What is the authority of your source? Who will corroborate that claim?

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Cmatthes

I find it hard to believe that the same model US and Asian guitars have no parts in common. What is the authority of your source? Who will corroborate that claim?

Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame

That post answers many of my questions and I appreciate the effort. You definitely hit the mark when it comes to identifying my desired guitar 'ethic' of function over flash. Those guitars look very comfortable to play but can they get me the wonderful tone I described earlier? What pickups are in the SFX Hamer Specials and do the other Specials (ie: Slammers) also have them?

I have single coil 'S' type guitars with serial/parallel switching that get me a pretty wide tonal palette but still sound like it is the same guitar. I don't really like schizo type shredders that mix humbuckers and single coils because they mostly sound confused and invariably have duplicated, unusable or missing tones. The pickup position should give you the sound you expect. I haven't tried the Yamahas you suggested but have played Ibanez in the same or similar configuration and that is what I have based this impression on. This is not an ill particular only to H-S-H or H-S-S configurations, I've played US Strats and other 'quality' guitars that exhibit this same kind of incoherence. The pickups should be able to reproduce the following basic sounds without effects:

1. sharp staccato (think funk and country quack)

2. smooth high pitches (not shrill and not muted but like a soprano aria)

3. glass like middle tones with piano depth and range (think Robert Cray)

4. authoritative mellow tones (think big round relaxed blues with bite)

A good guitar should do these basic sounds without struggling or sounding confused. Naturally, there are guitars that excel in any one these basic sounds but I refuse to have a herd of instruments. My absolute limit is 5 guitars and when you consider two are acoustic (6 and 12 string) that leaves just three for amplification. That is why I am so particular about what I want. I don't have the space or inclination to collect every one trick pony. Ideally, I would like my three guitars to do the basic sounds in their own particular voice like a singer doing different styles but all three having the chops to do what is asked of them. Sorry about the metaphorisms but I really did want to describe what I want so everyone reading could understand it. I hope I did a good job of it.

I just smoked a bowl and then landed on this post. It made me wet.

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gmaslin

I think you best off going with nathan's advice. Hamer has their roots with Gibson. So most of their line is inspired by them with humbucker mainly and some p90s and mini humbuckers in the mix. Not to say hamers wont work for you. The just only have a few models with single coils in them. So going with Yamaha you will have a lot more options to choose from to get the one that suits you best.

I agree with gettin a cheap guitar and putting an extra $100 or so in quality electronics. That will get you a lot better sounding guitar than buying a cheap guitar that costs that much more than the first one.

With imports they are really just trying to get the good enough mark. Where the top name brands put out products to get that exact target. The internet is way too powerfull of a tool. If they released something of low quality you wouldn't have to Google very much to find out about it. Reputation is a hard thing to build and a very easy thing to loose.

So I say find the guitar that feels right to you regardless of where its made. Then do some looking online for the right pickups for the sound you are looking for.

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USA Hamers are superb................ the early ones are awesome looking, sounding, and playing guitars. I love the older Hamers but that being said Hamer was building some of its best ever guitars before the shop closed up. :( USA Hamer guitars everytime. :)

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@gmaslin,

as far as component differences...

Hamer USA used one-piece bodies and book-matched figured wood caps. The imports generally used multi-piece bodies. The effect of glue holding two pieces of wood together on tone is best decided by the individual guitarist. I've heard some say a multi-piece body can't sound good because the vibrations can't travel through different wood pieces in different alignments through the glue. The same person will then claim that a set neck is superior to a bolt-on, or that the maple cap adds tone to his mahogany guitar. So take those sorts of hypocritical announcements with a grain of salt.

I can tell you that one of favorite and best sounding guitars is a Korean-made plywood guitar.

However, Hamer USA also seasoned its wood. That results in a more consistent tone, I think...I think it would be hard to argue that moisture content in a guitar's wood has zero effect on tone. From my research into Westone guitars as they moved from Matsumoku in Japan to Korea, the Koreans didn't season their wood. That doesn't guarantee a horrible guitar, but it does mean the guitars are more likely to be inconsistent.

Hamer USA also used a 3-piece neck, so Hamer USA necks rarely have twisting or bowing problems.

Hamer USA shielded the control cavity. I don't think the imports do that.

Pickups are higher quality in the USAs vs the imports. If you don't like Hamer JBs and 59s, that may not make that much difference to you.

USA tuners were higher quality. That means they last longer and hold in tune better.

Hamer USA frets use slightly harder metal, I think, so last longer. They put more care in installing/setup, so USA frets are smooth like butter...imports can be rough, with rough ends. USAs will also have a far less chance of a dead spot, and won't be as prone to buzzes and fretouts.

USA Hamers had better pots and switches. So imports are more likely to develop scratchy pots and cutouts.

The trems on USA Hamers use higher-quality steel. That keeps the trem knife-edges sharper longer, so you have less tuning problems.

The maple cap on flame-topped, carved top double cutaways (Sunbursts/Studios) is much thicker on the USA models. On the imports, it is sometimes a paper-thin veneer, but always much thinner.

The main thing in common with USA Hamers and imports is the design specs. There were a few import Hamers (like the Stellar and the Echotone) that have no equivalent in USA Hamers, and vice versa.

But the ones that are similar still use cheaper wood, cheaper metal, cheaper parts, and less care in setting up.

That doesn't mean you can't end up with a great guitar if you start with an import...you just have to do more work.

I have gotten to the point where I can purchase any USA Hamer, sight unseen, and know it will be a playable guitar. Especially if I buy it from someone here, but even on eBay, from Guitar Center, etc.

The most beatup Hamer USA I ever had still played and sounded great, just looked like hell. I've gotten at least one utter dog from every other guitar line I've tried, and that includes import Hamers. So I have to be much more careful looking at pictures, as questions about the trem, neck angle, fret buzzes, etc.

There's the comprehensive breakdown of differences, part by part, wood piece by wood piece. As cmatthes originally stated with full confidence, the USA and import Hamers share NO parts, wood pieces, veneers, pots, tuners, bridges, or whatever, whatsoever.

And that doesn't begin to address how differently they are built and finished.

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Of all the Yamahas, Matsumoku-made guitars, and Hamers (both USA and import), this is the best one on eBay right now:

Slammer Series Centaura

It's pretty much the only one in your price range that I think is worth what they are asking.

For some reason, the eBay market is a little messed up: the market is soft so guitars with low starting prices are selling for below what they are worth. So apparently people are responding by setting their starting price too high.

Note that the switch is probably a mid-range boost, not a coil tap.

You might need to re-wire it to get the humbucker tone the way you want it. You might even need to swap out pickups.

But this is a solid platform to make those changes.

Gotta hurry, the auction ends soon.

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Here's a GREAT deal:

import Diablo

They'll ship for $50 or less.

You'll want to add a push-pull coil tap on the knobs. One for each pickup and you'll have all the flexibility you'll ever want.

Or maybe a push-pull on one of the knobs to change the humbucker from series to parallel wiring.

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Give it up, Nate. Pretty sure he/she/it had their fun and have left the building.

Yep. "She" hasn't posted since Friday morning (post 49). I think your challenge to corroborate "her" statement about USA Duncans made abroad put "her" away and Thorn's mention of tracing "her" IP address sent "her" running. "She" made 16 posts in the first 49 (one in every three) and none among the 23 that have followed.

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Quite possibly a troll, yes.

But someone else may read the discussion and learn something.

I know that when I work through stuff, I'm doing it for me on the excuse/motivation of someone else asking.

So, again, I don't feel the time was wasted, even if she never reads it.

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Isn't this amusing. It appears my identity is being called into question in my absence. It might have occurred to you morons that I am too busy on the weekends to post on boards. Some of the more enterprising among you may have discovered some of my photos. This is exactly why I typically don't put up a photo on my internet profiles. I mistakenly thought this time would be different. I have no fear or shame about my career choices and you should know that I am many things but not a liar. Is it so hard to believe that someone who looks as good as I do thinks as well as I do? I'll be removing my avatar so you won't need to be distracted in the future. Geez, grow up.

JohnnyB

You should have known better than to doubt me, so disappointing.

Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame

Thank you for all your wonderful advice and for giving it so selflessly. If we are ever so lucky to meet, I promise to show you my appreciation :)

Rodip

Stop being a guitar fetishist and learn how to play.

Thorn

Since you initiated the doubt you should tell everyone what your traceroute turned up. Oh, and I think its funny that after 'calling bullshit' you end up friending me, hedging our bets are we? You're such an asshole.

If I haven't individually addressed you it's probably because you don't deserve a personal reply but I will leave you with a psychological profile that probably fits you. There are some people so conditioned by repetitive failure and negative events in their lives that even when something remarkable and interesting is right before them they will miss it. A doubter may not be fooled but may foolishly doubt what is true.

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I'm glad you find my meanderings useful.

I do want to hear what guitars you end up with, and why.

Although if you are like me, there will be some constant churn in your stable as you get excited about trying out other guitars.

I found another one that might be worth your time/money, but I'm trying to decide if I want it myself. Whoever gets to it first, maybe....

http://www.musicgoround.com/p/123928/used-westone-spectrum-lx

This is a Matsumoku-made guitar. Not quite the level of USA Hamer, but well-respected.

The cool thing about the LX is each of those knobs has a push/pull.

Normally, only the humbuckers are active, and you have a 3-way switch that gives you Bridge, B+N, or Neck.

The first knob turns on the middle single coil.

The 2nd knob splits the humbuckers.

The 3rd switches the phase.

So you can get all 3 single coils on at the same time, something you can't normally do with a strat.

You can also get a cool Peter Green sound with the phase reversed.

Here's a demo of the switching (although on a different model of Matsumoku guitar):

And the Music Go Round Spectrum LX probably has MMK 45 humbuckers, which are extremely hot and sought-after. A single one often fetches more than $40 on eBay...the guitar in the video probably doesn't have them, by the sound of it, and the year.

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