Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 (and goofy ones too). I got that one covered.
unfun75 Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 These scenarios make me think "Baker" and "VHT" and that's not a good thing.
django49 Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 How to differentiate? How about "Hummer" on the headstock?"Guaranteed happy ending or your money back!"
Ting Ho Dung Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 Until then, it's all either idle speculation or baseless rumor.This is an internet forum.If we didn't swim in idle speculation and baseless rumor, we'd have a lot less to talk about.I dance for peanuts.
alantig Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 That's not always a good thing.I read that on a forum, but I haven't been able to confirm it.
coolfeel Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 It sounds like there is an expectation by some that if the brand is revived, that it will be done with an emphasis on build quality as a top priority. It doesn't always work that way...
cmatthes Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 Exactly. Might as well just bring back the imports if that's the case. The methods and standards of building that MADE Hamer USA what they are will likely prove to be to costly to replicate.
django49 Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 I imagine a lot of us are queuing up to buy a retread of an old model, with an unproven genetic background at full (new) retail prices. Until there is SOME track record of making SOMETHING interesting, at a high level, Shishkov is a LOT more appealing. Otherwise, there are a LOT of quality Hamers in good to near mint condition for very nice prices.Call me a skeptic.
sirDaniel Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 well.. we have all had our shot at getting a dream HamerUSA built for us. And, we have all had a shot at purchasing one we thought/think is our dream guitar. What more could we ask. There are 60,000 Hamers out there, one of them has our name on it. We should blow up every guitar plant right now and just go after whats actually out there. Do we really care that the Hamer name still builds a new guitar? The team is gone.
mc2 Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 Washburn is in serious trouble, this I know. Their custom shop is closing from what this same source says. Last ditch effort by an investment group to recoup some cash ?Dunno, don't really care, thought I'd throw it out there for conversation.As for Hamer , I know there are many who will disagree and argue it to no end, but even as good as they were being built in N.H. , I still don't believe they were real Hamers.other than a logo and the occasional sus block, they felt nothing like a vintage Hamer.I think it was over by 1987. So regardless of what luthier dream team was assembled in New Hartford, Jol was designing guitars that did not appeal to the masses or the core fan base and this is why Hamer is gone.Technically there is no big name manufacturer that is true to its namesake. You can run down the list of almost every BIG one and they are neither owned, designed, being built by, or even in the same original city as they once were. I'd surmise that's why we are seeing so many small upstart builders these days, which is a healthy thing for the markets. Personally , I love seeing all of the little guitar builders giving the majors a run for their money !Save for a big genre change in music driving the need for radically different instruments, it's almost like the mid 70's all over again.I think the only major old name guitar brands that are still close to their original roots are Rickenbacker, Hofner, Martin and Hoshino/Ibanez. There are a bunch of post 1960s brands (PRS, Pedulla, etc) still intact but only a few that have been around longer than that. Most other old brands have been gobbled up or changed original corporate ownership over the years.
kizanski Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 As for Hamer , I know there are many who will disagree and argue it to no end, but even as good as they were being built in N.H. , I still don't believe they were real Hamers.other than a logo and the occasional sus block, they felt nothing like a vintage Hamer.I think it was over by 1987. You make a very good point, John, and I agree for the most part.The guitars they made were nothing like the vintage ones, but I also think that they are better. Also, many of the original players were there almost until they shut down.The difference in the current scenario where Hamer might get rebooted is that no one would be.
Studio Custom Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 Exactly. Might as well just bring back the imports if that's the case. The methods and standards of building that MADE Hamer USA what they are will likely prove to be to costly to replicate.People drive 80k beamers. There are customers for premium products, you just have to cater to them by saying YES on special requests. Suhr and Knaggs are selling guitars, becuase they are perceived as worth their cost. The problem was always management.
BubbaVO Posted April 26, 2015 Posted April 26, 2015 I'll reserve judgment until I see what they actually come up with.
geowolves Posted April 26, 2015 Posted April 26, 2015 Washburn is in serious trouble, this I know. Their custom shop is closing from what this same source says. Last ditch effort by an investment group to recoup some cash ?Dunno, don't really care, thought I'd throw it out there for conversation.As for Hamer , I know there are many who will disagree and argue it to no end, but even as good as they were being built in N.H. , I still don't believe they were real Hamers.other than a logo and the occasional sus block, they felt nothing like a vintage Hamer.I think it was over by 1987. So regardless of what luthier dream team was assembled in New Hartford, Jol was designing guitars that did not appeal to the masses or the core fan base and this is why Hamer is gone.Technically there is no big name manufacturer that is true to its namesake. You can run down the list of almost every BIG one and they are neither owned, designed, being built by, or even in the same original city as they once were. I'd surmise that's why we are seeing so many small upstart builders these days, which is a healthy thing for the markets. Personally , I love seeing all of the little guitar builders giving the majors a run for their money !Save for a big genre change in music driving the need for radically different instruments, it's almost like the mid 70's all over again.If my 93 Special FM, 00 Vanguard and 00 Newport are not real Hamers since they were built after 1987 they are to me unreal guitars. The craftsmanship put out by the team in NH is second to none in my opinion for the value of these guitars. As for not coming up with a guitar people want to buy it seems the Newport has a great following and lust factor that has a grip on many who don't own one and many like myself who wish to never sell their Newports. I guess I'm OK not owning a real Hamer. I'll just be happy owning my unreal Hamers.
django49 Posted April 26, 2015 Posted April 26, 2015 ^^^^Every version of Newport, Monaco and Talladega, not to mention ALL of the limited edition takes on such as the Artist and Studio, that have passed into (or through) my hands is/was a truly wonderful instrument. My korinas, Junior, Vector and Standard, also fall into the "later" years. I would not deny the goodness of the earlier guitars, but the later ones (lets say from about 1996 on) are what make me light up.
The Shark Posted April 26, 2015 Posted April 26, 2015 I think most of us feel the logical progression from Hamer to Shishkov is a ship that's already sailing away quite nicely. I really don't care who owns the name Hamer. Hamer is over for me. Truth be told, Hamer's been over for a long time. I haven't bought a new one since I was a "Keyman" endorser in 1992. The speculation about vintage Hamer prices is interesting. I think 4-digits and early Sunbursts will increase or decrease in price irrespective of anything "Hamer" is doing. If they had Paul building 4-digit style Standards and Sunbursts, they might re-kindle history. But I don't think that's what's going on here.
TheDan Posted April 26, 2015 Posted April 26, 2015 This discussion always reminds me of Slayer carrying on without Jeff Hanneman. It might make sense to some but no matter what you do you will not be able to re-create or even top what has been done in the past. Better start from scratch and build your own legacy.
peedenmark7 Posted April 26, 2015 Author Posted April 26, 2015 As for Hamer , I know there are many who will disagree and argue it to no end, but even as good as they were being built in N.H. , I still don't believe they were real Hamers.other than a logo and the occasional sus block, they felt nothing like a vintage Hamer.I think it was over by 1987. You make a very good point, John, and I agree for the most part.The guitars they made were nothing like the vintage ones, but I also think that they are better. Also, many of the original players were there almost until they shut down.The difference in the current scenario where Hamer might get rebooted is that no one would be.I would absolutely agree that the newer Hamers are FAR better made than the old ones.Smaller production numbers, better tooling all makes for better attention to detail and a better guitar build overall.The down side is that the old ones are what the masses are looking for. I'm grateful that you and Chris M talked me into buying the newer standards , they really were better made than any of the 4 digits that passed through my hands, they just didn't feel like a Hamer and they eventually were sold for that very reason. Though, I'll readily add that I recently courted getting back the screwed up spalted top Standard built for me, and I truly miss the Green Monster !I'm also of the same mindset as many posting that just because the name is resurrected, doesn't mean that the build fit and function will follow suit, as it likely will not.The worst that happens is they parade Paul out in front of this resurrection and the guitars don't live up to core base expectations.When fender brought Grover Jackson in to do the Legacy Charvels, I thought what sad parody of a once great franchise.At that point, I'd rather have fond memories than a half a$$ed re-boot of them.
cmatthes Posted April 26, 2015 Posted April 26, 2015 Paul will not be involved in anything to do with a resurrected Hamer name.
Studio Custom Posted April 26, 2015 Posted April 26, 2015 Paul will not be involved in anything to do with a resurrected Hamer name.Never say never. Maybe the new guitars turn out to be great. Maybe they make him an offer he can't refuse. It's too early to drop any gauntlets IMO.
peedenmark7 Posted April 26, 2015 Author Posted April 26, 2015 It makes me think how bitter Dean Z was after his reunion with Dean Guitars. I had a nice conversation with him right before the DBZ stuff came out..Is any of that stuff even made in the states anymore and does he have anything to do with it other than name ?
cmatthes Posted April 26, 2015 Posted April 26, 2015 I've spoken to Paul.It's not idle speculation on my part.
DaveL Posted April 26, 2015 Posted April 26, 2015 All I remember... in the last months of Hamer, some of the people here begging to get them to build a runof old skool standards, and being met with something along the lines of "that ship has sailed" "too late"or "the price will be insane and none of the cheapasses here will buy one". Then there was the visionin my head of the FMIC people trashing stuff in a dumpster... and now a new owner will likely offer that. I got news for you Walter Cronkite, TOO LATE.
serial Posted April 26, 2015 Posted April 26, 2015 Hamer USA has been replaced by Shishkov Custom Guitars USA for me.
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