Heaviest tonewood?

[zorrow]

Which is the heaviest wood one could use to build a guitar body? I mean the heaviest/densest of them all. Any idea?

TIA!

[Roshark]

Ebony is very dense and heavy . I have never seen a solid ebony guitar . If you are looking to break your back thats my vote . Their is another wood called Iron wood . That may do the trick too .

[JohnnyB]

Top 10 Heaviest Woods including two different ironwoods, plus 6 honorable mentions including two different ebonies. All 16 are heavier than water and therefore don't float. Some of the same woods are in the Top 10 Hardest Woods, which isn't too surprising.

[zorrow]

20 minutes ago, Roshark said:

Ebony is very dense and heavy . I have never seen a solid ebony guitar . If you are looking to break your back thats my vote . Their is another wood called Iron wood . That may do the trick too .

Well, I'm actually trying to figure out how to build a semi-hollow guitar which wouldn't neck-dive. I guess a very dense wood in the middle of the body could compensate for the hollow upper and lower parts, right? I also thought about a bulky bridge, such as a sustainblock. Am I on the right track?

[ptm1diver]

Purple Heart is very heavy so are some walnuts.  That's why certain English and Turkish walnut is used on rifle and shotgun stocks.   

[Steve Haynie]

Strap knobs positioning can help compensate for neck-dive. 

 

Heck, if you are only backing up someone just stand on the instrument cable and that will keep you guitar in position. 

 

Looking at the chart, snakewood looks like a lot of wood that was used in antique furniture.

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

I'm having a HH Tele body custom made for my own build and it's one-piece Black Limba (Black Korina) which is quite heavy. The body will be around 3.5kg once cut / routed...

[crunchee]

No mention of Rosewood, so far?  PRS has used solid Rosewood in limited production models (not sure if it was Brazilian or Indian, or some of both) as guitar necks (not just fretboards and headstock facings) before.  I'm not sure if the recent Fender Harrison Rosewood Telecaster RI has a hollow/chambered body or not (it does have a 'sandwich' body construction though, two slabs of rosewood separated with a thin layer of maple), but I once found a used Japanese-made (mid-late '80's or early '90's model, I think) Fender Rosewood Telecaster RI in a guitar shop many years ago...I took it off the wall rack and quickly found that it was the HEAVIEST guitar I'd ever picked up!  After doing that, I didn't even WANT to try to play it, I just put it back on the rack.  

[JohnnyB]

1 hour ago, zorrow said:

Well, I'm actually trying to figure out how to build a semi-hollow guitar which wouldn't neck-dive. I guess a very dense wood in the middle of the body could compensate for the hollow upper and lower parts, right? I also thought about a bulky bridge, such as a sustainblock. Am I on the right track?

More than wood weight, consider the overall leverage involved. The balance point is a combination of how many frets are totally clear of the body and the location of the upper strap button The unsupported neck length determines the strength of the lever--the tendency to dive; the strap button location determines the fulcrum or balance point. I have a G&L ASAT Classic Semihollow and it hangs perfectly. Although it's a 25.5" scale with an inline (longer) headstock, it never dives. The strap button is at the 15th fret and the neck joins the body at the 17th fret. On the treble side you have clear access up to the 21st fret via the cutaway.

OTOH, the Hamer Artist places the strap button at the 17th fret and the neck joins the body at the 21st fret. That geometry is already dive-prone, and when you hollow out the body, you better swap that nylon strap for a leather one with a sueded lining. Instead of trying to rout ironwood, it'd be much easier to hang a bag of shot from the body strap button. 

 

That's the occasional problem with the Hamer double-cutaway shape; it would have been nice to extend the upper horn of the Gibson DC shape to attain better balance. On a Paul Reed Smith, the neck joins at the 21st fret and you have all the upper fret access you could want, yet the strap button is at the 14th fret. 

And if you make a semihollow Strat body you're golden, because the strap button is at the 12th fret. The neck joins at the 17th fret but the cutaway provides access on the treble side all the way to the 21st fret. With the strap button at the 12th fret, you might get neck dive if the neck were ironwood.  Example: G&L Legacy Semihollow:

[Bennyboy-UK]

Surely were talking about density rather than weight? After all, which is heavier, a pound of ebony or a pound of balsa...

Mineralisation and water content would have a bearing on sample A vs sample B of the same species of timber as well.

 

being really obstinate, I suppose (as answered above now  ) the challenge should be - what is it you are trying to achieve, and why do you think you want to do the thing you want to do?

 

then take it from there

 

 

[HSB0531]

4 hours ago, ptm1diver said:

Purple Heart is very heavy so are some walnuts.  That's why certain English and Turkish walnut is used on rifle and shotgun stocks.   

I was just about to say both purple-heart and black walnut.

I had a slab of purple-heart that I tried to cut on a table saw and burned up the blade trying.

I still have the slab of walnut.

At 55" x 6.25" x 1.75" it weighs 13.5 lbs.

I've had it since 1975. 

[cmatthes]

I don't know - hollow and semi hollow bodied guitars aren't always neck heavy, nor are the bodies necessarily light.  A co-worker brought his '70s 335 in for me to mess with for a month or so, and that may have been one of the heaviest guitars I've ever played.  Seriously - a freakin' BRICK!

[django49]

28 minutes ago, cmatthes said:

I don't know - hollow and semi hollow bodied guitars aren't always neck heavy, nor are the bodies necessarily light.  A co-worker brought his '70s 335 in for me to mess with for a month or so, and that may have been one of the heaviest guitars I've ever played.  Seriously - a freakin' BRICK!

True dat. I would not consider a "normal" 335 small OR light. That block in the middle is serious wood. There are semi-hollows that use solid wood tops and backs that are thinner and lighter than the typical plywood. And some of them are a real joy to play. (Something like an ES-330 that is more of a true hollow body may have more of a balance---and feedback----issue), But with the larger body and a good sized "log" inside, neck heavy is not likely an issue.

Too, if the balance is not quite to your liking, a non-slip strap (like suede) can help to offset that.

Re korina wood......My Vector is very lightweight. My Standard might be the heaviest guitar I have ever played.

Also, re ebony......I have a Scott Walker with a solid ebony back and thick (carved) ebony top, sandwiching flamed maple in a vaguely Jazzmaster-ish but thick body style. That sounds like it should be heavier than hell, but it is quite comfortable, at about 8 1/2 lbs. And the balance is quite good, though the really CHUNKY Brazilian neck, topped with an ebony board does help in that respect. Sings like a mother stinker.

[JohnnyB]

Forget the wood densities for a moment. What body style are you considering? For example, with a Strat-, PRS- or Tele-shaped body you won't need to worry much about body weight because the strap button location almost guarantees balance. If you go with a double cutaway joined at the 21st fret, unless the body's pretty heavy and/or there's an extended upper horn for the strap button, you'll probably have a dive-prone guitar. With a really heavy body you might alleviate that, but who wants a really heavy guitar?

[zorrow]

3 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

Forget the wood densities for a moment. What body style are you considering? For example, with a Strat-, PRS- or Tele-shaped body you won't need to worry much about body weight because the strap button location almost guarantees balance. If you go with a double cutaway joined at the 21st fret, unless the body's pretty heavy and/or there's an extended upper horn for the strap button, you'll probably have a dive-prone guitar. With a really heavy body you might alleviate that, but who wants a really heavy guitar?

I'm considering a Red Special body, which is actually a double cutaway. I'm planning to build a jazz-oriented version with a friend of mine who has all the wood-working skills and tools, but knows almost nothing about guitars.

Extending the upper horn is out of the question, as I want to replicate the RS shape. I also want the original chunky neck.

Now, the hardware will be totally different, simplified to the bare minimum. No tremolo mechanism whatsoever, no multiple switches, only one pup, and so on.

All this means the body will be "emptied", respect to the original design. I'm therefore worried about a diving-prone neck.

[JohnnyB]

5 hours ago, zorrow said:

I'm considering a Red Special body, which is actually a double cutaway. I'm planning to build a jazz-oriented version with a friend of mine who has all the wood-working skills and tools, but knows almost nothing about guitars.

Extending the upper horn is out of the question, as I want to replicate the RS shape. I also want the original chunky neck.

Now, the hardware will be totally different, simplified to the bare minimum. No tremolo mechanism whatsoever, no multiple switches, only one pup, and so on.

All this means the body will be "emptied", respect to the original design. I'm therefore worried about a diving-prone neck.

Guess what? The original Red Special is semihollow. The Wiki desciption says:

Quote

The body was made from oak from an old table, blockboard (strips of softwood sandwiched between two plywood skins)[7] and mahogany veneer; the final result was technically a semi-acoustic guitar – the central block is glued to the sides and covered with two mahogany sheets to give it the appearance of a solid-body guitar. It was originally intended that the guitar would have f-holes but this was never done.

A more detailed description can be found on Brian May's website. It's not quite a neck-thru design, but the neck goes deep into the body, stopping just short of the bridge pickup. That would add considerable heft to the body for a better balance. Also, the Red Special's scale is 24" and has a 3+3 headstock. The strap button is at the 17th fret, but with the somewhat shorter neck and fairly large body (with the neck going in so deep), you should get pretty good balance. I don't think you need a really heavy wood to make this work, given that the original is semihollow anyway. As was previously pointed out, a lot of ES-335s are bricks too.

 

[Hamersaur]

A friend of mine had a 4 string bass with a Bubinga body. Thing weighed a ton. He was a big guy but in between songs he would grab on to the lower bout to give his shoulder a brief rest.

[JohnnyB]

7 minutes ago, Hamersaur said:

A friend of mine had a 4 string bass with a Bubinga body. Thing weighed a ton. He was a big guy but in between songs he would grab on to the lower bout to give his shoulder a brief rest.

I tried out a Wenge 5-string Warwick and it was ridiculous. Instead of a strap you need one of these:

[SSII x 2]

Where does ziricote fall in the weight department?  I bet it's right up there...

[crunchee]

27 minutes ago, SSII x 2 said:

Where does ziricote fall in the weight department?  I bet it's right up there...

According to The Wood Database website, it has an average dried weight of 50 lbs. per cubic foot...on the same website, Honduran Mahogany has an average dried weight of 37 lbs. per cubic foot as a comparison, and most of us here know how much THAT can vary!

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/ziricote/

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/honduran-mahogany/

The Wood Database is a handy website for specs on many kinds of wood.  And as always, Google is your friend.

 

[django49]

30 minutes ago, SSII x 2 said:

Where does ziricote fall in the weight department?  I bet it's right up there...

This does not list every species I am interested in, but is helpful in at least giving relative weights. As best I can tell (separately) ziracote is around 50 lbs per cubic foot, somewhere between oak or walnut and ebony. Meanwhile, korina (black limba) is supposed to be around 35 lbs, but like a lot of others, can vary a LOT.

I think it also interesting to see the difference between ash and alder, two common body woods on vintage type solid bodies. But keep in mind the actual weight can vary a good deal, even amongst wood from the same tree, depending upon whether it was from the lower or upper part of the tree.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/weigt-wood-d_821.html

[zorrow]

All your answers are very interesting so far. Thank you! I'm retaining that the position of the strap buttons is very important to have good balance, in order to avoid having to add extra weight to the body. However, there are heavy tonewoods out there which can also help to compensate, if ever needed.

[cynic]

Given the horn can't be changed, you can also position the body-side strap button to combat neck dive.

[hamerhead]

Just use granite. I've heard it has otherworldly properties......

 

[Sugartune]

On 01/08/2016 at 10:41 PM, cmatthes said:

I don't know - hollow and semi hollow bodied guitars aren't always neck heavy, nor are the bodies necessarily light.  A co-worker brought his '70s 335 in for me to mess with for a month or so, and that may have been one of the heaviest guitars I've ever played.  Seriously - a freakin' BRICK!

I had an Artist Korina and Newport. Neither were neck heavy. Perfect balance for me, actually (Bigsby might have helped the Newport though)

My father-in-law has a friends pancake Les Paul. That thing is HEAVY. 

I had a 90's Special that was a brick. Weighed more than my Studio Custom. 

My 90's Gibson Special is a feather compared to both. 

Oak might be heavy

I'd guess Walnut to be the heaviest, since it's so dense. 

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

The wood I chose for my custom build Tele (Black Limba / Korina) with Warmoth reverse-strat neck, Sperzel lockers (black), black hardware, 1 volume, 3-way, Jim Root 81/60 Active EMG's mounted directly into the body plus I'm going for natural wood finish (no scratch-plate). Can't wait til it's built! I have a luthier friend routing and shaping the body using one of my Fender Japan Tele bodies as a basic template. I will build it myself in my workshop...

 

Here's the wood for the body;