zorrow Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 Watching right now an old tape of the “Bark at the Moon” tour, with Jake E. Lee on guitars. His tone and chops are awesome... and Ozzy delivers! What a great show!
Travis Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 Nice! I remember watching the old “ultimate ozzy” vhs almost to the point of wearing out the tape. Jake E Lee didn’t get the recognition he deserved. My personal opinion is that he suffered by following immediately after Randy and that Zakk was only as popular as he was because he had the distance from Randy by Jake being the buffer. All 3 monster players for sure but I’d take Jakes chops and tone over Zakk any day.
scottcald Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, Travis said: Nice! I remember watching the old “ultimate ozzy” vhs almost to the point of wearing out the tape. Jake E Lee didn’t get the recognition he deserved. My personal opinion is that he suffered by following immediately after Randy and that Zakk was only as popular as he was because he had the distance from Randy by Jake being the buffer. All 3 monster players for sure but I’d take Jakes chops and tone over Zakk any day. It also didn't help Jake that Sharon didn't like him and she loved Zakk.
RobB Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 1 hour ago, scottcald said: It also didn't help Jake that Sharon didn't like him and she loved Zakk. Waaaal, it's like this: As Brother Ray Charles said in his autobio, "if you wanna be a Raelette, ya gotta, 'let Ray.'"
Disturber Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 Although I love Randy Rhodes Jake E Lee is probably my favourite Ozzy guitarist, (or I like 'em equally much, depends on the day of the week). Blizzard of Oz, Diary of a Madman and Bark at the Moon are Ozzy's best albums in my book. Bad for Jake's Ozzy history is the fact that The Ultimate Sin is such a lousy album. They must have been drinkin' and snortin' their way through those songwriting sessions, it is just lousy work. It has maybe three songs on it that are okay, but still not close to the material on Ozzy's three previous albums. Jake still plays like a demon on T.U.S., but it does not help the songs. Had Ozzy delivered another album as strong as Bark at the Moon, then I think Jake's legacy with Ozzy would have been a lot bigger. I saw the Ultimate Sin tour. Jake was a monster on stage. I remember that gig as being really great. Ozzy was on fire too.
zorrow Posted January 22, 2019 Author Posted January 22, 2019 6 hours ago, Travis said: Nice! I remember watching the old “ultimate ozzy” vhs almost to the point of wearing out the tape. Jake E Lee didn’t get the recognition he deserved. My personal opinion is that he suffered by following immediately after Randy and that Zakk was only as popular as he was because he had the distance from Randy by Jake being the buffer. All 3 monster players for sure but I’d take Jakes chops and tone over Zakk any day. I do see your point, but before Jake there was Brad Gillis too. Which leads me to this: 6 hours ago, scottcald said: It also didn't help Jake that Sharon didn't like him and she loved Zakk. And this: 43 minutes ago, Disturber said: Bad for Jake's Ozzy history is the fact that The Ultimate Sin is such a lousy album. I would also add there’s a lot of Van Halen-isms in Jake’s playing, look and stage moves. He played fantastically, and in this video he kicks some serious ass, but he does look a tad “fake” too. It’s a bit... annoying. Anyway, Jake still has a tone Randy could’ve only dreamed about. And he’s also “groovier”. I will convert this video to mp3, to play it in my car. It’s awesome stuff! 🤘
zorrow Posted January 22, 2019 Author Posted January 22, 2019 BTW, I love Jake’s guitar. It gives me serious GAS. Sadly, the price is ridiculously high.
Travis Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Disturber said: Bad for Jake's Ozzy history is the fact that The Ultimate Sin is such a lousy album. I can’t say I agree 100% with that. In my opinion TUS is better than anything Ozzy did after No More Tears... While I do agree about the strength of the first 3 albums, I just loved Jake’s sound and playing on TUS. Maybe not the best songwriting in terms of lyrics (Thank god for the bomb...? Really...?) but I didn’t think the overall album was that bad. Also, I personally don’t really count Brad Gillis as he was just hired to finish the tour after Randy died and Speak of the Devil was released to satisfy a record contract. Brad didn’t contribute to any studio albums so I never really thought of him as being “in the band.” Just like I personally never really considered Joe Holmes to be “in theband.” At least Gus G cut a studio album with Ozzy...
Disturber Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 2 hours ago, zorrow said: I would also add there’s a lot of Van Halen-isms in Jake’s playing, look and stage moves. He played fantastically, and in this video he kicks some serious ass, but he does look a tad “fake” too. It’s a bit... annoying. Anyway, Jake still has a tone Randy could’ve only dreamed about. And he’s also “groovier”. I will convert this video to mp3, to play it in my car. It’s awesome stuff! 🤘 Jake shared rooms with Warren De Martini. It is audiable in both their playing styles that they influenced each other. Both have rythm and groove. Eddie VH has it in spades and they both listened carefully. Funny, I always thought Zakk looked fake. Ok, perhaps not in the beginning, but since he grew that beard. Jake and Warren have similar tone. More overdriven, more 80s. Sounds more like JCM800's, but I know at least Warren had that famous JMP, and also cut solos with the Super Champ on Cellar. What Jake used on the Ozzy albums, I haven't got a clue... Anyone know? I know he had the Boss OD-1. Randy used the Altec speakers. They sound way different than Celestions. Randy's tone might not be nice, but it sounds great in the mix. Mean, kinda gnarly and aggresive. Very far away from the LA sound that Jake and Warren had. But I don't think anyone else could sound good with Randy's tone. It's his, no one else can sound like that.
Jeff R Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 Bernie Torme didn't count either. Who remembers him? He was between RR and BG for like one month, for just a few shows. I spoke to him on the phone once, pre-Internet and when you had to dial like a dozen digits to call across the pond. Bernie said the gig was cool but he was a temp in his own mind going in and never let it be more than that. Plus the crowd response was horrible (as I'd guess you'd guess), flipping him off, cussing him, even throwing shit at him, and he had an unrelated music project back in England for which he was very excited. Add me to the Jake fanbois, easily my favorite Ozzy guitarist as much as I love RR and BG in particular. I remember seeing the blueburst Charvel strathead for the first time and literally feeling my mouth salivate excessively. I too wore out The Ultimate Ozzy VHS I loved "The Ultimate Sin" at the time in that you can tell most every song was built around a guitar trick, a difficult stretch or technique, something bizarre to the norm ... more so than actually producing a good "song" or bed of music for Ozzy to do his thing. I was really into guitar acrobatics at the time so the record was a good fit. I rarely listen to it nowadays - I'll take Badlands all day every day of the week instead.
Steve Haynie Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 Red Dragon Cartel came through in 2015, and the turnout for the show in Charlotte was low, maybe 150 people at most. There were problems of rotating band members while on tour, too. Jake still came through as an incredible guitar player. They are touring even closer to me this year in March. My ticket is in hand! Jake's stage moves were a lot like Juan Croucier of RATT.
ZR Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 I thought Pat Thrall was also in the mix of touring guitarists after RR, but nothing to back that up except memory. EDIT: seems like Pat just set Ozzy up with Brad.
Jakeboy Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 I live Brad’s reinterpretation of the Sabbath tunes on SOTD. I saw that tour like 3 weeks or so after RR passed. I do wish Oz would have crafted a studio album with Brad....but then we wouldn’t have had Sister Christian, huh? Jake has chops and tone and he epitomized the LA sound at the time, along with Warren....everyone was chasing EVH....except for Randy. I loved his snarky raspy tone and very aggressive playing. He was so different. You could hear the classical influence in the background. And he was blazing fast. Whereas EVH and VH made you want to dance, and I mean that in the very best way as even their hardest rockers have the groove, RR simp,y rocked. Very different. The Tribute album to RR is what did Jake in. I remember he was finally being accepted in his own right, then Ozzy/Sharon dropped Tribute on him. Who could have blamed him for leaving at that point?
zorrow Posted January 22, 2019 Author Posted January 22, 2019 RR was an original, an innovator. He did refuse to jump into the VH’s bandwagon. His melodic sense and his songwriting skills were top-notch, and his classical influences did add a very sheer flavour to his playing. His tone though, mostly in the studio, sounded dull to me. To my ears, he lacked of edge. A matter of taste, I guess? I did know Bernie came before Brad Gillis. Brad however did last enough to be considered more than just a touring guitarist of that band. Besides the live album, there’s also a live “Speak of the Devil” DVD with Brad on it, playing RR material too. It’s a good one —you guys very probably do know about it anyway. As of Jake E. Lee goes, I had no idea he was close to Warren DeMartini —I’m not too much into RATT. However, Jake did sound to me like anyone else at the time, in spite of having some merits on his own —and in spite of being a great player, of course. Now, Zakk... absolutely fake, yeah, as @Disturber says, but heavy metal is essentially fake anyway, right? 🤣 But seriously, Zakk does sound to me more original than Jake, even if I like better Jake’s playing style. Zakk’s got his own thing going, up to the point he’s even touring with Vai, Nuno and Malmsteen these days, while Jake was recently bashing Yngwie and struggling to keep his own shit together. In addition, Zakk held the flame of competent lead guitar on a major act (Ozzy) during the grunge period. That’s why I guess he transcends in the collective memory, while Jake remains “just one more good player” in our heads. A bit sad, indeed... but c’est la vie. 🤷🏻♂️
RobB Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Steve Haynie said: Jake's stage moves were a lot like Juan Croucier of RATT. How unfortunate.
scottcald Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 For me, I don't think Ozzy ever had a full album where all the songs were good after the first two. Some good songs, but I never bought a whole album again. My understanding is that Speak of the Devil did have a lot of studio overdubs, so maybe Gillis did have his studio turn w/Ozzy! Poor Bernie Torme. He was on a losing journey with them shoving him in that vest, clearly a Randy costume piece. I had read they had him play through Randy's gear, too, which must've been tough to control with single coils. I like Zakk, but the pinch harmonic thing grates me like Kirk Hammett and the wah pedal. Just a little too much of it. I think if Sharon didn't like Zakk, he'd have been gone quickly and I don't know that he would have any more notoriety today than Jake. Haven't listened to any of the Gus G stuff, so can't comment on it. Also, Jake didn't help himself by disappearing for 15 years or so.
Steve Haynie Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 I saw that tour with Vandenberg opening in Greenville, SC. We heard that Jake had been with Ozzy for two weeks. Shows in Maryland usually were/are within a week of shows in Greenville. The bass player was Don Costa who kept trying to act like Gene Simmons all night.
zorrow Posted January 22, 2019 Author Posted January 22, 2019 @Disturber, here’s some info about Jake’s rig I found googling around: https://equipboard.com/pros/jake-e-lee Again, that black & white Charvel of his makes me dream. The price is prohibitive though, even obscene. Please have a look to this —it’s insulting for such a simple piece of gear: 😡 https://reverb.com/p/charvel-jake-e-lee-signature-model-pearl-white-with-lavendar-hue-2016
Disturber Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Steve Haynie said: . The bass player was Don Costa who kept trying to act like Gene Simmons all night. Like in trying to shag all the women he could lay his hands on? 1 hour ago, zorrow said: @Disturber, here’s some info about Jake’s rig I found googling around: https://equipboard.com/pros/jake-e-lee Again, that black & white Charvel of his makes me dream. The price is prohibitive though, even obscene. Please have a look to this —it’s insulting for such a simple piece of gear: 😡 https://reverb.com/p/charvel-jake-e-lee-signature-model-pearl-white-with-lavendar-hue-2016 Thanks. Funny though that they don't mention the Boss OD-1. I know Jake used it with Ozzy. I read an interview back then that he almost called it his secret weapon. Other players used the TS9. Jake was one of few who used the OD1.
Steve Haynie Posted January 22, 2019 Posted January 22, 2019 Costa was at his place on stage making demon faces and biting the air like he was possessed. It looked really fake.
jettster Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 Big Jake fan, my favorite Ozzy guitarist followed by RR. Also loved Speak of the Devil with Gillis, that one is still killer. Didn't care for Zack at all. Ultimate sin had some really crappy tunes but also some of the best. Secret Loser and Shot in the Dark are two of my all time favorites. Saw him twice on this tour a few weeks apart in Phoenix with Metallica opening and then in Sacramento. Also saw him on the Bark at the moon tour, Ozzy sounded great back then.
diablo175 Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 Jake was/is one of the few non-wiggle stick wielding 'slingers from that era that stood out. I dug his work with Badlands. In the pantheon of Ozzy guitarists, I put him right behind Randy, just in front of Brad and well in front of Zakk. Fact is, Brad, despite being a whammy f-ing bar maestro and a helluva player, never wrote or collaborated directly on any of Ozzy's stuff. In that sense, it's not really fair to compare him to the likes of RR, JL and ZW. But I totally agree with Jakeboy- BG's reinterpretations of classic Sabs was very cool!
Toadroller Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 10 hours ago, Ed Rechts said: War is indeed hell. Goodness, what a post! Some great writing there.
Biz Prof Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 Randy is inimitable, but Jake was a badass player who was perfect for Ozzy at that juncture. You might not like his tone, but I thought it was blisteringly good and raspy, and it sounded very different compared to other shredders of the day. I still think he employed some sort of octave effect in the signal chain. TUS had some solid tracks on it IMHO. The intro to Killer of Giants was worth the price of admission for me and I still use it as a warm up before gigs
Toadroller Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 I saw Ozzy with Jake in, oh, 86, as a freshman in Dayton. Three significant memories: The Ozzy crowd was a bit, um, leather and Harley Davidson to this innocent Toadroller at age 18. Jake was great until I noticed the young ladies lifting their shirts showing him their fleshier bits. From then on, I watched the side show. We hadn’t planned a ride home but met up with a buddy of a friend. He was drunk as a skunk, complete with 16 ouncer in hand bombing through I75 at, oh, 80mph, telling what stories he would as I reached from the back seat, occasionally grabbing the wheel to keep us alive. Dumb kids.
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