HamerCustomEr Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 No affiliation. You certainly don't see these everyday! It looks like a Phantom to me. https://reverb.com/item/35826896-80-s-hamer-mike-perron-signature-black Does anybody here know Mike Perron? I found this link on Poor N Reign: http://www.poornreign.com/mike.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polara Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Hamer could add your name to an order back then, so a "signature model" from the 80s is usually like getting a shirt monogrammed. Nice Phantom A5, and you usually see them 3+3 headstock, not 6 in line. Somewhat optimistic asking price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topekatj Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 I wish I had a dime for every Kahler the world doesn’t want in 2021 (which is ALL of them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddonordo Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 9 hours ago, topekatj said: I wish I had a dime for every Kahler the world doesn’t want in 2021 (which is ALL of them). Why is that? I'm not a whammy bar kind of guy so haven't really researched nor have I owned one to form an opinion. Tuning stability, reliability, function, form? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rugby1970 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 19 minutes ago, eddonordo said: Why is that? I'm not a whammy bar kind of guy so haven't really researched nor have I owned one to form an opinion. Tuning stability, reliability, function, form? I'd like to know, too. Purely from an educational basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGale Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Kahlers suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrdaddy Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 34 minutes ago, eddonordo said: Why is that? I'm not a whammy bar kind of guy so haven't really researched nor have I owned one to form an opinion. Tuning stability, reliability, function, form? 15 minutes ago, rugby1970 said: I'd like to know, too. Purely from an educational basis. 5 minutes ago, JGale said: Kahlers suck. ^^^ THIS ^^^ Specifically: clunky, tone SUCKING pieces of dung. One could dumpster dive and build a better trem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddonordo Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, gtrdaddy said: ^^^ THIS ^^^ Specifically: clunky, tone SUCKING pieces of dung. One could dumpster dive and build a better trem. Thanks for enlightening us. Floyd Rose it shall be for my future '80's shredder then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topekatj Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 In the mid-80’s players wanted tremelos on everything — I blame EVH (jk). The Floyd Rose was the preferred tool for a pure ‘shred’ guitar. A few guys like Adrian Belew made the Kahler work okay but last I knew he’d ditched them. Basically, the locking tremelos fell out of fashion and any guitar that has now one would be much more highly sought after without one. But I’d take a Floyd on the subject guitar since it would then closely resemble Glenn Tipton’s Hamer from that era. ETA: I like the natural finish on the neck with the black body! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velorush Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 24 minutes ago, topekatj said: In the mid-80’s players wanted tremelos on everything — I blame EVH (jk). You're really not far off on the EVH thing. Then came Vai. Forced me to WonderbarTM my SG! I really have no problem with a Kahler with a proper setup - amazing flexibility and adjustability. IMO Floyds have their own "tone suck" issues (oh, the blasphemy!) that, too, can be overcome with setup and proper pickup selection. Kahlers with heavy duty springs work well (again, IMO). What I do have a problem with is handing out $2,300 on a partially-refinished Phantom A5, six-on-a-side or not. At a reasonable price (tree-fity, for example) one could have it re-refinished and have a really sharp guitar, but at that price there's nowhere to go. That case tho'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottcald Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 I think Kahlers are maligned unnecessarily. It's like anything else, it just needs to be set up properly. I've played both and each has it's own idiosyncracies. I used two guitars from the late 80s for like 10 years - a Peavey T-60 with a Kahler installed and an Ibanez RG550 with the Edge trem. Both stayed in tune perfectly. Both played well and had plenty of sustain and good tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Scepter Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 17 hours ago, polara said: Hamer could add your name to an order back then, so a "signature model" from the 80s is usually like getting a shirt monogrammed. Nice Phantom A5, and you usually see them 3+3 headstock, not 6 in line. Somewhat optimistic asking price. Hamer employee guitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrdaddy Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 5 hours ago, velorush said: IMO Floyds have their own "tone suck" issues (oh, the blasphemy!) that, too, can be overcome with setup and proper pickup selection. Kahlers with heavy duty springs work well (again, IMO). Truth. I am overly critical of Kahlers, they were actually made pretty well. I just didn't like the tone suck from them. Even when set up properly, I still found that guitars with Kahlers would benefit tonally, with a different trem that would allow more of the woodiness to come through. Believe the same about Floyds to a lesser extent. I prefer six screw vintage style trems. What the heck do I know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rugby1970 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 25 minutes ago, gtrdaddy said: What the heck do I know? Hehehe......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Scepter Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 45 minutes ago, gtrdaddy said: I prefer six screw vintage style trems... Yup, that sit flat against the body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eli Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Vibratos and their quirks. It's like action and string gauge. We all have our preferences. I've got a few properly set up Kahler, Bigsby, Floyd & traditional strat vibratos. My OCD just doesn't like when they get added to the wrong guitar. (See any sadly modded Standard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottcald Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 1 hour ago, gtrdaddy said: Truth. I am overly critical of Kahlers, they were actually made pretty well. I just didn't like the tone suck from them. Even when set up properly, I still found that guitars with Kahlers would benefit tonally, with a different trem that would allow more of the woodiness to come through. Believe the same about Floyds to a lesser extent. I prefer six screw vintage style trems. What the heck do I know? Man, I could never get a Fender 6 screw trem to behave properly for me, which is what originally sent me to the Kahler and Edge. 57 minutes ago, Eli said: My OCD just doesn't like when they get added to the wrong guitar. Can't disagree with that. It'd be like seeing the EVH Frankenstein with a Bigsby or a Gibson sideways trem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrdaddy Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 24 minutes ago, scottcald said: Man, I could never get a Fender 6 screw trem to behave properly for me, which is what originally sent me to the Kahler and Edge. There's a process, and it must be exact. And if the screws were ever turned with the trem's springs installed, and/or strings attached, the pooch would've been screwed (...pun intended) and you would never be able to get it right. The trem would be ruined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 hours ago, gtrdaddy said: I prefer six screw vintage style trems. I’m curious why that is. I only have two guitars with trems. One is a Floyd and the other two are 6 screw vintage trems. I know that a lot of people prefer a two point non locking trem. I’ve heard them say they’re smoother but I couldn’t imagine it being any smoother than the Mann vintage trem I have on my Mirage II. I can see a two point trem being easier to set up but once I got the Mann set up, man does it work trem-endously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamerCustomEr Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 I was always really happy with the tremolo systems on the Fender Strat Plus series from the 1990s. They had locking tuners, an LSR roller nut, and a Hipshot Tremsetter, and for me, the bar always came back in tune. True, I wasn't doing Satriani or Vai style thrashing, but I never liked the idea of the locking nut, or the hassle with ball-end strings, or the tales of woe attached with endless fiddling with Floyd or Kahler setup. It may sound shallow, but I always thought all locking trems looked cumbersome and unwieldly. In contrast, the Strat Plus is so streamlined. https://xhefriguitars.com/page2.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddonordo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Thanks to all for the Kahler tremolo education. Very helpful. I bought a used Jackson (early San Dimas) in 1988 that came with a fixed bridge Kahler (sacrilege, right?) so that was my only exposure to anything Kahler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtrdaddy Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 5 hours ago, Travis said: I’m curious why that is. I’ve heard them say they’re smoother I believe there is more resonant string energy transfer with the six screws providing more surface for more knife edge to transfer that energy to the body. I'm not alone in this one. Many builders and players feel and hear this. Fender Custom Shop uses the 6 point trem on every CS Strat I've ever seen. There may be something with a 2 point, but I can't recall one. Overwhelmingly it is 6 Screw. PRS trems are all 6 screw. For pretty good reason. I was skeptical, and I fitted a Strat in the '90s with a six screw vintage trem that came with the two screw modern Fender trem and it sounded MUCH BETTER. I did a second one and had the same result. Mann makes a 6 Screw for PRS. I don't know where people get "smoother" from, that's determined by the tension you set it up with. They all work on a knife edge. If Mann made a Fender style 6 Screw I'd be all over it. It WOULD sound better than the 2 point. 5 hours ago, HamerCustomEr said: I was always really happy with the tremolo systems on the Fender Strat Plus series from the 1990s. They had locking tuners, an LSR roller nut, and a Hipshot Tremsetter, and for me, the bar always came back in tune. Excellent guitars. I've owned a few. Currently have a '91. Not a fan of the Lace Sensor pickups, but the guitars themselves are incredible. The '91 I have had a freak "FLOYD ROSE" branded FENDER Trem that wasn't a Floyd Rose in the traditional sense. It was essentially a 2 screw Fender trem, but you had to clip the ball ends off the strings and lock the strings in place with steel blocks that you would screw tight against it like a normal Floyd Rose. No height adjustments and no fine tuning. It was a piece of dung. Came from Fender stock like that. Never understood that move. Hated it. Swapped it with a Wilky and never looked back. The Wilky 2 point sounds better too. I never bothered to go through the trouble to do a six screw on this guitar because it's a beater with a Roland GK3 mounted on it and I really just don't care enough. I'm sure it would improve it like the others though. Even without the locking trem dung-bridge, I can dump the strings till they fall completely loose with the Wilky on this guitar, and it comes right back to perfect tune. LOVE that LSR Roller Nut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuelc12qw Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 15 hours ago, eddonordo said: Thanks for enlightening us. Floyd Rose it shall be for my future '80's shredder then! Hello, I have quite a few guits with kahlers and some Floyd’s. I mean the best tone your going to get is, in my opinion, from a fixed bridge. But kahlers do get a bad rap. I get pretty good sustain from my kahlers and I feel they stay in tune better then a Floyd does. Yet, it all depends upon the set up. If the set up is shit, it will play like shit. So, try one out at a local guitar shop. If it sucks and isn’t for you then it isn’t. You might be surprised at how good they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamerCustomEr Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 9 hours ago, gtrdaddy said: LOVE that LSR Roller Nut! The LSR Roller Nut is awesome! Too bad that it is available in 1-11/16" width only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackubus Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 This is neither here nor there, but I walked right by that very same guitar today. They also had a black 12 string Phantom A5 in stock as well at Guitar House of Tulsa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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