concerts: are they too loud?, I might be too old?, or both?

[Biz Prof]

Sound quality at the 2007 Van Halen (with DLR) show in Greensboro was just horrible.  Painfully loud, mushy, distorted drums and bass. Guitar tones were quite shrill.  The canned synth used for "Jump" was set at the wrong pitch and therefore out of tune with the band.  In the years since, I've heard similar complaints about the Charlotte show.  Those two concerts were the first on that tour and while I've long believed a tour-opening show might be plauged with technical gremlins and mistakes, the abhorrent sound quality at that Greensboro was far beyond the realm of teething pains. 

[cynic]

I saw Nugent maybe a half dozen years ago at Atlanta Symphony Hall.

The Raskins were the opener and their sound was absolutely horrible.  There were times when the lead player appeared to be soloing but whatever he was doing wasn't at all audible in the mix.  It was impossible to discern one stringed instrument from another as it was all a bunch of mush.  That mostly held true for the singer as well.  I could hear something more in the mix when he opened his mouth, but that's about it.

Nugent was as loud as he's always been in my experience, but had much more clarity.

At the end of the night I had zero desire to ever hear a Raskin again, but felt completely satisfied by Nugent.  He's always such a force I can't imagine him having a bad show.

[DaveH]

8 hours ago, Steve Haynie said:

Their stage was one block over from where I was running sound on a different stage.  They were sonically stepping all over the bands on my stage.  Festival staff had to tell Molly Hatchet's sound guy to turn down the volume.

That wasn't at a Fall For Greenville, back around 1999 was it?

[Steve Haynie]

Yes.  I was running sound at the jazz stage on Coffee Street. 

[DaveH]

1 hour ago, Steve Haynie said:

Yes.  I was running sound at the jazz stage on Coffee Street. 

They WERE loud. And not an original member in the bunch. 😂

[Submariner85]

It doesn’t bother me much.  The only concert that was too loud for me was slash with Myles Kennedy. 
That concert messed my left ear up for weeks. 
I think it was Myles’ vocals that did it. 

[rickrock999]

Didn't get a chance to read all the comments but. I bought the black ticket and went on tour with Metallica this summer. 13 shows. For most I was in the snake pit which means right in the middle of the in the round stage.  For me it could have been louder. Volume was good but could have been louder.

The loudest show I remember was Foo Fighters at a private party for a video game launch. This was back around 2008.  I got to go to this because they happened to do it where I worked (open bar and all) only 300 people and full stadium gear. When Taylor Hawkins hit that drum it was punishing when standing only 30 feet back or so. Still one of the best shows I have ever seen. I've never used ear plugs. Most shows I wouldn't need them anyway.

[beezerboy]

long ago.... Lucifer.... remnants of Blue Cheer.... 16 Sunn amps, 200 watts each

 

 

[scottcald]

On 1/3/2024 at 4:27 PM, scottcald said:

Can't recall the name of it right now.  It was an upstairs venue in College Park, so the added awesomeness of carrying all our gear up narrow stairs.  The guy who was good was named Ray and the guy who wasn't was Ben.

EDIT:  This was like 87-88.

@cmatthes I just remembered, it was the Paragon. 

[Brooks]

On 1/3/2024 at 4:38 PM, Biz Prof said:

Sound quality at the 2007 Van Halen (with DLR) show in Greensboro was just horrible. 

 

I was at that show. I remember the synth tuning on Jump, but don't remember the mix sounding bad all night...

[Biz Prof]

4 hours ago, Brooks said:

 

I was at that show. I remember the synth tuning on Jump, but don't remember the mix sounding bad all night...

It actually started OK, but the bass drum(s) ended up distorting badly. When Alex used his double pedal, it seemed to overwhelm everything else. Eddie played well, Wolf hit the high harmonies, and Dave actually sounded good.

[RobB]

A good number of this aging generation of FOH engineers and musicians have hearing loss to the point of disability. The older/deafer you get, the louder the rig goes. Granted, it’s difficult to get a practical, balanced mix with even the most expensive, custom ear filters. I use earplugs on the job, but never when I have to do an (rare) actual mix. 
 

Take the 5150 amp. These are deified by death metal guitarists worldwide. Stupid amounts of gain/volume. I still scratch my head about this piece of gear. Not a fan (at all). Eddie spent months with the designer testing prototypes at full volume. Wouldn’t his hearing impairment be a detriment to dialing in an amp’s tone?

[scottcald]

4 hours ago, RobB said:

A good number of this aging generation of FOH engineers and musicians have hearing loss to the point of disability. The older/deafer you get, the louder the rig goes. Granted, it’s difficult to get a practical, balanced mix with even the most expensive, custom ear filters. I use earplugs on the job, but never when I have to do an (rare) actual mix. 
 

Take the 5150 amp. These are deified by death metal guitarists worldwide. Stupid amounts of gain/volume. I still scratch my head about this piece of gear. Not a fan (at all). Eddie spent months with the designer testing prototypes at full volume. Wouldn’t his hearing impairment be a detriment to dialing in an amp’s tone?

Quite possibly.  But, many mastering engineers are likewise older.   And, no one would dare say to EVH, "Dude your hearing's shot, or at least questionable" especially now that the fanbase would keyboard warrior them to death.   Sammy told a story once about Alex getting ready to fight someone backstage when he actually didn't hear him.  I'd have to imagine Ed's hearing wasn't that much better. 

[HSB0531]

On 1/3/2024 at 12:43 AM, scottcald said:

Too much low end and not clear or too much in the 2-5kHz region will make it unbearable.   It's said that 85dB or above for more than 30 minutes straight can cause damage.  I think that's true, but also like a lot of other things it's not going to be a big problem all at once, just little bits at a time.    I think for me, the loudest shows I've been to were ages ago - Iron Maiden/Accept at Merriwether Post Pavilion and Judas Priest on the Defenders of the Faith tour.    Also, the way shows were done then in the indoor places just created more reflected sound and build up in those high mids.  

Agreed

[HSB0531]

On 1/6/2024 at 4:23 PM, RobB said:

A good number of this aging generation of FOH engineers and musicians have hearing loss to the point of disability. The older/deafer you get, the louder the rig goes. Granted, it’s difficult to get a practical, balanced mix with even the most expensive, custom ear filters. I use earplugs on the job, but never when I have to do an (rare) actual mix. 
 

Take the 5150 amp. These are deified by death metal guitarists worldwide. Stupid amounts of gain/volume. I still scratch my head about this piece of gear. Not a fan (at all). Eddie spent months with the designer testing prototypes at full volume. Wouldn’t his hearing impairment be a detriment to dialing in an amp’s tone?

When you're in the audience, and you only go to a few to several concerts a year, it's damaging to your ears.  When you're the tour sound Front of House Engineer, you're ears are getting those levels for 3 hours or more, every single night.

And it doesn't have to be that way.  I've sat next to FOH engineers for Yes, Carl Palmers ELP, RATT, John Lodge, Peter Wolf, The Doobie Bros., Ace Frehley, and numerous Latin, & Rap artists.  The one thing they all had in common was that the FOH and Monitor engineers had the levels up way too high.  I had concert goers telling me it was too loud....that's the people who paid to see the show who were saying it was too loud. 

RobB is 100% correct.  The older and deafer the sound engineers get, to louder they turn it up.