BadgerDave Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 As those of you who have been following the progress of the sparkley Stike-o-caster thread are aware, I've been having difficulty receiving a bridge I ordered from John Mann at MannMade USA. I ordered one of these: from this website: MannMade Website in October, paying via PayPal. Within a couple of days after ordering I received an e-mail from John promising to ship within 10 days. After a few weeks, I hadn't received the bridge and I sent a few e-mails. I then politely informed John that I was going to open a dispute with PayPal. I received a response, promising to ship if I didn't open the dispute. I waited until the last possible day before I would lose the right to open a dispute before initiating it. John's position now is that he will ship if I drop the dispute. My response is that I will drop the dispute the moment I have the bridge in my hands. Here's his last communication: Dave As stated previously, I would be happy to ship the bridge this week and will confirm with a USPS tracking #. I will pack the bridge, prepare it for shipment, give you the tracking #. Once you have the tracking #, I need you drop the dispute as resolved and re-instate payment. Regards, John Mann Why do you suppose he wants me to drop the dispute before I have the bridge?
cmatthes Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Have Brian K. swing by and pick it up and send it to you.
edgar_allan_poe Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 WTF is wrong with these guys? Why is it so hard to just communicate honestly with a customer? Unreal.
Feynman Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Ask him to buy you some Snake Oil Strings to make it up to you.
cmatthes Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Maybe John, Will Boggs and that SnakeOil crook should partner up with Gene Baker?
BadgerDave Posted December 15, 2009 Author Posted December 15, 2009 On the other hand, this demonstrates that PayPal does not always suck.
elduave Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 WTF is wrong with these guys? Why is it so hard to just communicate honestly with a customer? Unreal.+1.
GaryT Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Doesn't the dispute on Pay-Pal tie up his account for 30-days? Thats probly why he's looking to get the dispute dropped. There's more than likely other orders, and he can't access the funds on the account?Not positive though I heard something to this effect.I don't understand why he just didn't tell you what was going on, and save himself the aggrevation? Sounds like he didn't have them in stock or machined at the time. Regardless its a horrible way to do business.
pesocaster Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Not to play Devil's advocate ... but at this point because of the dispute he has not been paid for the bridge ( like a credit card charge back)... unfortunately I have see this first hand.... I think his terms sound acceptable.... considering the circumstances. Do I think it should have been handled better ... absolutely.... From a manufacturing point of view: The second there is a problem or there is going to be a delay contact the customer... let them opt out if need be .. communication is the key here....Hope it all works out....
Disturber Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Don't drop the dispute. I don¨t remember for how long you can claim a dispute on paypal? Is it eight or twelve weeks or so? After that you are screwed.
MCChris Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 On the other hand, this demonstrates that PayPal does not always suck.Sucks for the seller. Now he can't take an "ask about the status of your order and you lose your deposit and forfeit your place in line" stance and elevate himself to rarified air reserved for the likes of Howard Dumble.
JohnnyB Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Couldn't find anything here? Looks like the Gotoh Low Friction might do, or the Wilkinson/Gotoh with locking saddles from Stew-Mac.
mathman Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Ask him to buy you some Snake Oil Strings to make it up to you.
burningyen Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Doesn't this guy have a terrible reputation among builders like PRS and TCM who tried to do business with him in the past?Don't drop the dispute. Get your money back and get a different bridge. I hear good things about Callaham and Skyway.
JohnnyB Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 I just thought of a way to eliminate the impasse, but you have to make sure Mann agrees to these terms: 1) Drop the PayPal dispute2) Cancel the order with the understanding that you don't lose your place in the order/shipping queue.3) Re-order the bridge via PayPal. This gives him payment in advance for the order and restarts the clock on PayPal protection for you order in case you have to file a dispute again later.With these safeguards established, I'd give him a week to get it to you; otherwise file a new PayPal dispute.
BadgerDave Posted December 16, 2009 Author Posted December 16, 2009 I just thought of a way to eliminate the impasse, but you have to make sure Mann agrees to these terms: 1) Drop the PayPal dispute 2) Cancel the order with the understanding that you don't lose your place in the order/shipping queue. 3) Re-order the bridge via PayPal. This gives him payment in advance for the order and restarts the clock on PayPal protection for you order in case you have to file a dispute again later. With these safeguards established, I'd give him a week to get it to you; otherwise file a new PayPal dispute. Good idea, Johnny, except if I do as you suggest, he gets the money for my first order plus the money for my second order in advance, without shipping anything. If he never ships, I'm out the first payment because I dropped the dispute. I can dispute the second payment, but it will take another 45-60 days to resolve. My main issue now is trust. I don't beleive he has any product to ship and he's just trying to to keep as much money as he can before PayPal shuts the door on his ability to bill. This was the Snake Oil endgame. In the meantime, I've ordered one of these for 1/3 the price of the Mann bridge:
marcnorth Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Don't drop the dispute. All he has to do to get his money is send you the product. I agree with you he doesn't have anything to ship to you.
tomteriffic Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 I just thought of a way to eliminate the impasse, but you have to make sure Mann agrees to these terms: 1) Drop the PayPal dispute 2) Cancel the order with the understanding that you don't lose your place in the order/shipping queue. 3) Re-order the bridge via PayPal. This gives him payment in advance for the order and restarts the clock on PayPal protection for you order in case you have to file a dispute again later. With these safeguards established, I'd give him a week to get it to you; otherwise file a new PayPal dispute. Good idea, Johnny, except if I do as you suggest, he gets the money for my first order plus the money for my second order in advance, without shipping anything. If he never ships, I'm out the first payment because I dropped the dispute. I can dispute the second payment, but it will take another 45-60 days to resolve. My main issue now is trust. I don't beleive he has any product to ship and he's just trying to to keep as much money as he can before PayPal shuts the door on his ability to bill. This was the Snake Oil endgame. In the meantime, I've ordered one of these for 1/3 the price of the Mann bridge: Whatcha got there, Dave?
JGale Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Not to play Devil's advocate ... but at this point because of the dispute he has not been paid for the bridge ( like a credit card charge back)... unfortunately I have see this first hand.... I think his terms sound acceptable.... considering the circumstances. Do I think it should have been handled better ... absolutely.... From a manufacturing point of view: The second there is a problem or there is going to be a delay contact the customer... let them opt out if need be .. communication is the key here....Hope it all works out....Please tell me this is the norm out there in normal land.
sw686blue Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 I wouldn't trust this guy with his lame excuses. This is not the first time that he's done this. Do not drop your dispute.
Mr Fuzzy Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Do not drop the dispute.Keep your money. That Wilkinson should do the trick.Sometimes manufacturers get held up for unforeseen circumstances. That is understandable, but he should ship to you as a sign of good faith and then you can pay him. (my guess is that would never happen)Paypal has a vendor policy that the seller must ship product within 7 days of purchase. MannMade did not hold up their end of the Paypal business agreement.I got hosed by WB Pickups, (14 months and still no PUPS). The king of excuses and unforeseen circumstances. All I can say about his current dilemma is "Karma is a Bitch"Paypal was useless because WB's "back order" was longer that the 45 day dispute period. A situation I have learned, where patience is not a virtue.There is no reason to do business with people who can not deliver product in a timely professional manner after taking your money.This is where credit card purchases are better when they do not actually run the charge until the item actually ships.Paypal is on my shit-list due to their inability/unwillingness too solve the WB issue because it is past their frail 45 day policy.Unscrupulous people can easily take advantage of others through paypal.Paypalsucks.com
BubbaVO Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Too bad its turned out this way. He's got a good product. He was great with me. Yes, he had me scared for a while on whether he was going to send me the bridge, but in the end he came through.
BCR Greg Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Mann dicked me over a few times in the past. He can sit on his parts. Gotoh, baby, Gotoh.
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