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Jol where are you?


LostArt

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Isn't there anybody on this board with personal contact to Jol who could call him and get the whole (real) story?

HRR

Yes, there are people here in personal contact with Jol.

I would assume that unless he personally chooses to make some sort of public statement, he is entitled to every bit of his privacy in the matter and that should be respected.

Jol is highly regarded in the industry, and will do extremely well no matter what he chooses to do going forward - even if it doesn't involve directly building guitars. The incredibly talented guys in the shop will continue to work on Hamer and Guild stuff.

I hope FMIC knows what it's doing...

This is a KMC thing, not Fender. There IS a distinction!

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Isn't there anybody on this board with personal contact to Jol who could call him and get the whole (real) story?

HRR

More Pure Speculation:

I bet he was offered the standard corporate executive termination agreement that normally includes a non-disparagement clause that pays more $$ if he leaves quietly. I don't think there is any upside in going public right now and would think that his plate is more than full.

I am most concerned about his well-being and whether we find out now, down the road, or never, I respect his privacy and if and when he decides the time is right, it would be cool if he could just relay a message that he's ok.

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Jol might have signed a separation agreement with gag restrictions for a certain time period. Kind of like Conan's deal with NBC.

Also, somebody said something to the effect - - "be nice to Fender, they let us use the Hamer name, etc." I have two Fender guitars and two Fender amps. I like a lot of what they produce, now and in the past. I have no reason to bash Fender products. I can certainly say, however, that I don't like some business decisions -- but where I say that might be contested by Fender.

I think there is some fair use of the term Hamer that would give people the right to continue to use this board (perhaps excluding some proprietary assets owned by FMIC, if FMIC objects) or to start another Hamer board. Of course, that might not prevent Fender's legal dept from firing off a cease and desist letter to SCARE people about using intellectual property owned by FMIC. There are plenty of boards out there (think Studebaker or Packard) that exist for hobbyists. What can't I have a board that allows somebody to post: "PSA Talladega on Ebay". Or, a post that describes the difference from a four-digit Std and a 90s or 2000s Std. Unless I am using Hamer in the name to generate a profit (example: unauthorized use of "Hamer Sales and Repairs of Lemoyne ") or to link me to the Hamer business entity, I should be free to continue to talk about Hamer.

Jeez, I wish I had a dollar for every complaint posted here about the inability to custom order boomers, etc. , either pre- or post-Fender. And what about the 100s of Walmart Sucks boards. FMIC, if it wants to continue the Hamer line, needs boards like this to generate interest.

Maybe somebody has a link to post about fair use of terms at a website. I wil look at IP for Dummies when I get a chance.

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Jol might have signed a separation agreement with gag restrictions for a certain time period. Kind of like Conan's deal with NBC.

Also, somebody said something to the effect - - "be nice to Fender, they let us use the Hamer name, etc." I have two Fender guitars and two Fender amps. I like a lot of what they produce, now and in the past. I have no reason to bash Fender products. I can certainly say, however, that I don't like some business decisions -- but where I say that might be contested by Fender.

I think there is some fair use of the term Hamer that would give people the right to continue to use this board (perhaps excluding some proprietary assets owned by FMIC, if FMIC objects) or to start another Hamer board. Of course, that might not prevent Fender's legal dept from firing off a cease and desist letter to SCARE people about using intellectual property owned by FMIC. There are plenty of boards out there (think Studebaker or Packard) that exist for hobbyists. What can't I have a board that allows somebody to post: "PSA Talladega on Ebay". Or, a post that describes the difference from a four-digit Std and a 90s or 2000s Std. Unless I am using Hamer in the name to generate a profit (example: unauthorized use of "Hamer Sales and Repairs of Lemoyne ") or to link me to the Hamer business entity, I should be free to continue to talk about Hamer.

Jeez, I wish I had a dollar for every complaint posted here about the inability to custom order boomers, etc. , either pre- or post-Fender. And what about the 100s of Walmart Sucks boards. FMIC, if it wants to continue the Hamer line, needs boards like this to generate interest.

Maybe somebody has a link to post about fair use of terms at a website. I wil look at IP for Dummies when I get a chance.

Well, FMIC, could in fact "shut" down the board, but really, it would only require a name change that didn't include "Hamer" ala the Birds and Moons forum. I certainly see no reason to self-censor myself, but if the powers that be on the board decide differently that's their call since I'm just a guest here. Also, interesting to know that it was a Kaman thing and not a Fender thing.

-

Austin

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Ted owns the "Hamer Fan Club" name.

I own the the HFC Logo and artwork. I created it, and it has been in open use for over 12 years. It has never been used for profit, so there is no angle there.

Also, interesting to know that it was a Kaman thing and not a Fender thing.

Actually a KMC thing, not Kaman, and it would be FMIC, not Fender. Subtle distinctions, but people are bashing the home of the Stratocaster for this, and that isn't appropriate.

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Well, FMIC, could in fact "shut" down the board, but really, it would only require a name change that didn't include "Hamer" ala the Birds and Moons forum.

If that was the case, we could become the Vics and Boomers forum. :ph34r:

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Holy crap! I'm sorry to hear this. (sorry about the delayed reaction but I just checked in)

I wish Joe the best and hope Hamer continues to maintain its great reputation.

Oh no, not Joe too!!!!!!!!!?????????????

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(...)

At least, personally, I am looking forward to the possibility of having Hamer guitars, made by the same impressive craft men as always (hopefully), but more focused on a streamlined, less-bling, and more comercially-designed approach.

...and I (also) have the perception Jol was the man who was pressing on the brake pedal all the time. The Hamer brand wasn't "breathing" anymore, IMHO.

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Yes it is.............First and most of all its profit. And that has always been the "ISSUE".

When corporate management/manufacturing interferes with Artistic Quality? This is the fine-line that everyone has always debated.

But if the Gretsch guitars are any indication of what is in store for Hamer? I would think they are in good hands and will be safe. There's no-doubt a spot in History and American guitar manufacturing for Hamer.

What "exactly" will go on in Hartford CT remains to be seen. At a moments notice the MTHLY production schedule could change. You may very well see Guild electrics injected back into the line out of Hartford.

Something is gonna happen. When the Hamer line was put on hold except for CS-orders? All this was already in the works. Believe that! That opens the door now to build whatever line FMCI wants to incorporate Or to re-design the Hamer line. You do realize this is "NOT" going to be limited to Hamer CS Orders. Not gonna happen. That move was in direct parallel with the move to get Jol out of their. You could believe FMCI didn't want to start a New Year of Hamers under Jol. Thats all that was.

There will be a LINE of electrics built their. If its Hamer we will see by the 1st of next MTH I would think.

But I see changes. I could see a steamlined Hamer line. And I could see Guilds making an entrance again.

I could be way off also. This is only some thoughts stirring around in my head. But I believe this move was in the making for much longer than we know. The Namm show, the cut-back of the Hamer line for 2010. All this was part of this move.

We have to see where Hamer is gonna go from here and more so where FMCI wants to take it. I'd be very surprized to see only CS orders though. After this last move the door is wide open for FMCI to impose their will now? The sales and what was ordered and the Stats I'm sure will play a part.

But as I said, its just an educated guess. For all I know we could see CS Hamers built for years to come? But in my heart I just don't believe that now.

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Guest JackButler

I agree with the post that stated that this is NOT a Fender thing, but an FMIC thing.. definitely a difference!

FMIC wanted KMC for their distribution network to assist in getting product to dealers quicker without having to wait for thing to get to the central states, southeast or east coast from their California warehouses. KMC has/had also get a distribution network through a good portion of Europe.. I don know that word is that they are using all of the warehousing and shipping network that they purchased and that a chunk of that has already been streamlined.

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I talked to a factory tcontact oday. They are still taking orders for custom & stock Hamer guitars. The Daily Work continues. There is a sadness to see Jol go, of course, (technically, courtesy of KMC).

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Wow, I don't check in for a few days and look what happens. This is a sad day for sure. I hope all goes well for Jol and all the guys at the shop as well. I'll be looking forward to future output from both. In the meantime, luckily there are still plenty of reasonably priced Jol-era Hamers on the used market.

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  • 1 month later...

^Feynman says this best.

Agree. Feynman is the man.

Anyone speculate what this does to value of Hamers out there?

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Anyone speculate what this does to value of Hamers out there?

My feeling is the value is unchanged. They are tremendously undervalued on the used market. Prices should creep up over time but I doubt it will have anything to do with Jol's departure. I don't think the used values went up when Paul left.

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^Feynman says this best.

Agree. Feynman is the man.

Anyone speculate what this does to value of Hamers out there?

Well, those who have purchased instruments with genuine Feynman StankĀ©, will, of course, receive a higher return on their investment when they go to sell. IF they don't wash the stank off or do any other upgrades, not including Kahlers of course.

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They are tremendously undervalued on the used market. Prices should creep up over time but I doubt it will have anything to do with Jol's departure.

I recently had a custom order spec'd out and priced for a Newport that by 'n large was not all that tricked out. Fancy top, some binding etc, otherwise fairly routine. My price, after a generous discount was still over 4k. With prices like this, combined with a virtual flood of used used Hamers at pennies on the dollar, Hamer will never see my new biz dollars again. You see I took that 4k and began shopping around to see what else is out there, turns out there's a hell of a lot out there for those prices, like I dunno FOUR Newports. Bottom line for me, Hamer is good, but they are absolutely NOT 7k msrp good. My gut feeling is that they know this to, and the days are numbered. Buy used now, while you still can.

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They are tremendously undervalued on the used market. Prices should creep up over time but I doubt it will have anything to do with Jol's departure.

I recently had a custom order spec'd out and priced for a Newport that by 'n large was not all that tricked out. Fancy top, some binding etc, otherwise fairly routine. My price, after a generous discount was still over 4k. With prices like this, combined with a virtual flood of used used Hamers at pennies on the dollar, Hamer will never see my new biz dollars again. You see I took that 4k and began shopping around to see what else is out there, turns out there's a hell of a lot out there for those prices, like I dunno FOUR Newports. Bottom line for me, Hamer is good, but they are absolutely NOT 7k msrp good. My gut feeling is that they know this to, and the days are numbered. Buy used now, while you still can.

I don't know dude, Earthen top, change binding, bound f-holes, matching headstock overlay/color, Rio's, Ebony board, tuner change, satin finish, etc. is pretty tricked out. Just sayin'.

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Not to split hairs, dude, but I never asked for satin, and your vm price est said "and that's not even with the Rio's". So we're talkin about overlay, binding change, fancy top and ebony. Sure, upcharges no doubt, no beef there. I still see the total as over-the-top for what is basically a production guitar with some bling. Just sayin.

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Bottom line for me, Hamer is good, but they are absolutely NOT 7k msrp good.

Not to be confrontational but who is 7K list price good? And why? From a wood selection, construction standpoint, attention to detail, etc they are as good as just about everybody else. The only thing I see lacking is resale value and the ability to spec out anything and have it built.

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Not to split hairs, dude, but I never asked for satin, and your vm price est said "and that's not even with the Rio's". So we're talkin about overlay, binding change, fancy top and ebony. Sure, upcharges no doubt, no beef there. I still see the total as over-the-top for what is basically a production guitar with some bling. Just sayin.

Guess I should stick to communicating quotes via e-mail. For the record, discussion, or ridicule, this is what we're talking about.

Newport $3825

Earthen maple top $580

Jazzburst n/c

Headstock overlay to match body top $300 +/-

Cream single ply binding $100

bound f-holes $275 per f hole

no neck and headstock binding $150 credit

Ebony board $150

dots n/c

Bigsby trem n/c

Kluson style tuners $135

Rio's at least $75 per, likely more

Jay, I remember Satin coming up at one point, when you where talking about how streaked, aged, spalted and old you wanted it to look, but I'm old and deaf, so who knows. Judge price as you wish, I think they're expensive too, but bling 'aint cheap (even bling to look unblinged) and to me this is a pretty tricked out guitar.

Maybe this is a cheaper route to that end:

Newport

Spalted body top

Satin

Delete all binding

Happy hunting!

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