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Jol where are you?


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Hey I can't be the only guy getting creeped out by that monkey photo in JGale's post...right?

:P

+1! In fact, most pics Gale posts creep me out! ;)

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No sh^t Poe and $275 per side? I been thinking about building another Newport similiar to mine with a quilt top but with those prices? Have to wait a couple minutes.

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No sh^t Poe and $275 per side? I been thinking about building another Newport similiar to mine with a quilt top but with those prices? Have to wait a couple minutes.

I agree it's expensive, but it's been that price for years. And we ALL know we're talking list price here, and end customer price is generally substantially less, right? ;):P

Edited to add, I'm curious what the "norm" is for bound f-holes as a build option out there.

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Newport $3825

I think the "problem" is here. Not in the upcharges.

I know this is a list price, but Newports @ around $1,000 in pristine condition are found.

This is just not the range of prices the market wants to see from a Hamer guitar. It's just not going to happen.

Hamer needs to find what to build for $1,000, street price. Only if they find something and make some money selling it, they will survive.

The "premium route" went downhill fast, and that was during the fastest growing economy we are going to see for more than 5 years ahead at least.

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No sh^t Poe and $275 per side? I been thinking about building another Newport similiar to mine with a quilt top but with those prices? Have to wait a couple minutes.

I agree it's expensive, but it's been that price for years. And we ALL know we're talking list price here, and end customer price is generally substantially less, right? ;):P

Edited to add, I'm curious what the "norm" is for bound f-holes as a build option out there.

That's exactly what I paid 4-5 years ago for my M3's bound F-holes. Yes, it is an expensive option, but I wanted it for that guitar for a number of reasons (most of them sentimental). If you've ever watched Mike Shishkov bind an F-hole, it isn't a simple pop-in job. Many manufacturers use pre-formed bindings and just snap them in with a little glue. These are done by hand, precisely mitered and formed. You have to break out a better lens to see the joints where the binding comes together on mine. The work is spectacular.

Is it too expensive? Purely a matter of opinion, and depends on how much you're willing to spend or what something like that means to you. I had two guitars built when my Dad passed away, and pulled out the stops on both, as those will be passed down to my sons.

Simply put, you may pay a lot for a Custom Hamer, but seriously - stack those prices/options up against Gibson or Fender Custom Shop or PRS' stuff, and you'll see that the prices really aren't that far off the mark. In many cases, the Hamer stuff is thousands cheaper. I just got a Sweetwater catalog in the mail this afternoon - that totally backs up this point for me.

I don't care for the high Hamer prices either, but that's the way it is for now, and you get what you pay for with them. If you are buying a guitar for resale, very few make that cut. If that's what you want, buy one of those and don't complain! ;)

Also, I can definitely see a lower-priced Hamer model, but it'll be something stripped-down and won't be a $1,000 guitar. Even a run-of-the-mill Strat costs that much. If you do get a more wallet-friendly new Hamer, it's going to have to run no less than $1,500 STREET. They simply can't build a quality guitar for $1k, and neither can anybody else in the US.

(and yes, that monkey in Gale's sig is freaky as hell!)

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Newport $3825

Earthen maple top $580

Jazzburst n/c

Headstock overlay to match body top $300 +/-

Cream single ply binding $100

bound f-holes $275 per f hole

no neck and headstock binding $150 credit

Ebony board $150

dots n/c

Bigsby trem n/c

Kluson style tuners $135

Rio's at least $75 per, likely more

If you think Hamer is high price wise, find a PRS dealer a spec a HB with those options and you would be looking at about 9-10K STREET!

Hamer still = bargin in my book!

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I spoke with FU back when the change was fresh and proposed a lower "street" (down from 20% to 30% off list-a number dealers could actually sell for and still make $) and a stripped down model that would street for, wait for it, $2010! Get it? He thought it was a good call but they'd have to hone in on a future direction/line re-launch before releasing any "new" models.

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I spoke with FU back when the change was fresh and proposed a lower "street" (down from 20% to 30% off list-a number dealers could actually sell for and still make $) and a stripped down model that would street for, wait for it, $2010! Get it? He thought it was a good call but they'd have to hone in on a future direction/line re-launch before releasing any "new" models.

Considering the current stock models aren't much more than that and they are still sitting in the warehouse, i think they would need to come down a bit more.

To me, $1500 street for a stripped down Hamer sounds about right, but obviously dealers and manufacturer's/distributers understand the marketplace better than a hack player like myself. :P

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My thought is that they would have to re-think the finish on a lower priced USA models. There is a lot of man hours in a Hamer finish and that equals $$$. It would almost have to be something like a P90 or Humbucker Special with a low budget finish.

Believe it or not I originally thought the Thunderbolt would have been a good model to hit a lower price point. No binding, no bling, dot inlays, etc. If the body wood grain were angled like the Korina Vectors you could do a ONE PIECE body with a pretty narrow board (saves a manufacturing step to not have to glue up two boards for the body). I thought it would have been a good way to use up some of the very nice narrow korina boards we were scrapping. From a cost perspective it would have almost been like building a Special. All of the parts (except for the tailpiece plate) were interchangeable with the Vector. Actually it would be a little easier to build the Tbolt vs a Special because everything is front routed (saving the step to do the electronics cavity on the CNC). Only downside is it would need a special case.

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I think my original point was ill-communicated. Yes, I felt the co was too pricey, but it's the sunken used market that is the nail in the coffin for a new order. If used Newports were still floatin high dollars then the stretch to a 4k order is reasonable. That's all I was really grip'n about. Dave, I appreciate all your efforts on this. It's just the wrong time for that kinda coin.

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Believe it or not I originally thought the Thunderbolt would have been a good model to hit a lower price point. No binding, no bling, dot inlays, etc. If the body wood grain were angled like the Korina Vectors you could do a ONE PIECE body with a pretty narrow board (saves a manufacturing step to not have to glue up two boards for the body). I thought it would have been a good way to use up some of the very nice narrow korina boards we were scrapping. From a cost perspective it would have almost been like building a Special. All of the parts (except for the tailpiece plate) were interchangeable with the Vector. Actually it would be a little easier to build the Tbolt vs a Special because everything is front routed (saving the step to do the electronics cavity on the CNC). Only downside is it would need a special case.

How 'bout a rifle bag?

Green%20rifle%20Bag.jpg

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My thought is that they would have to re-think the finish on a lower priced USA models. There is a lot of man hours in a Hamer finish and that equals $$$. It would almost have to be something like a P90 or Humbucker Special with a low budget finish.

Believe it or not I originally thought the Thunderbolt would have been a good model to hit a lower price point. No binding, no bling, dot inlays, etc. If the body wood grain were angled like the Korina Vectors you could do a ONE PIECE body with a pretty narrow board (saves a manufacturing step to not have to glue up two boards for the body). I thought it would have been a good way to use up some of the very nice narrow korina boards we were scrapping. From a cost perspective it would have almost been like building a Special. All of the parts (except for the tailpiece plate) were interchangeable with the Vector. Actually it would be a little easier to build the Tbolt vs a Special because everything is front routed (saving the step to do the electronics cavity on the CNC). Only downside is it would need a special case.

Probably a very good idea actually. Plus that model would have benefited from not having a flood of used product selling for 40% of new prices competing with it's sales. Hell, do like Charvel does with their new SoCal series...ship in a gig bag if the special case is the cost killer. Not sure how the body style would be received by the general guitar buying/playing public, but all the excellent cost cutting steps and points you made seem to make a $1.5K street priced USA Hamer (with all the quality we love about them still intact) possible again. Jol's choice of brand direction had no direct impact on me (wasn't going to pay that kind of money for one anyway, not a dealer or someone who makes a living on moving USA Hamers, etc.), so I can understand and respect what he was trying to do with the brand. That said it's gotta be tough to convince current Hamer loyalists to lay out that kind of coin when they know they can get so much 'like new' USA Hamer for their dollar on the used market; tough to convince dealers to keep stocking new Hamer USA product when they're already sitting on an inventory of expensive guitars collecting dust (and usually having to eventually sell the guitars at a discount cutting into profits); tough for Hamer to reach out to potential new 'affluent' customers when dealerships no longer can afford to carry the USA Hamer line in regular inventory...viscious downward cycle not at all helped by a poor economy. :P So anyway, I like your idea Bob and hopefully someone in charge at Hamer likes your idea as well...it might be a step in the right direction to get new product out there and actually selling ;)

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I don't care how masterful the guy is installing the binding is. $550.00 for a pair of F holes is ridiculous.

I make a decent wage, and with benefits ect it comes out around $60.00 an hour. How much does a factory worker make, maybe $20.00 per hour. With benefits maybe $35.00.

I realize that there is over head involved so even at double that to $70.00 and hour.

Is he taking just under 8 hours to do the binding. If it takes him more than a hallf hour he's down the road.

Oh yea add the $2.00 for the material.

That is a crazy upcharge.

But then again I can't see a 250.00 to $500.00 upcharge for a flamed top when the material cost is only about $25.00 a board foot and you need 1 board foot.

My rant is now over.

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I'm a big fan of the charvel pro mods... I'd like to see a hamer special

in a thin matte finishe in either black or cherry with grovers.

I think the problem would be for Hamer to get the price down to where

they want to be (it has to be cheap if they want to actually SELL them)

they might have to consider doing a run in say corona california... and

I agree with what Hollowskull is saying, there definitely would be some

question whether there's enough demand in the eyes of consumers/dealers

and also, whether it will cannibalize or change the perception of the rest of

their stuff.

That said, I do think the pro mods have succeeding in getting the

attention of people who would never have picked up a charvel to

give the rest of their product line a serious look.

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I don't care how masterful the guy is installing the binding is. $550.00 for a pair of F holes is ridiculous.

I make a decent wage, and with benefits ect it comes out around $60.00 an hour. How much does a factory worker make, maybe $20.00 per hour. With benefits maybe $35.00.

I realize that there is over head involved so even at double that to $70.00 and hour.

Is he taking just under 8 hours to do the binding. If it takes him more than a hallf hour he's down the road.

Oh yea add the $2.00 for the material.

That is a crazy upcharge.

But then again I can't see a 250.00 to $500.00 upcharge for a flamed top when the material cost is only about $25.00 a board foot and you need 1 board foot.

My rant is now over.

All valid points, but I think (mind you this is just my opinion) that it cost so much for a couple reasons...(1) if you're only banging out 2 or 3 guitars a day you need to really make a profit on those 2 or 3 guitars to keep the shop running and a bank roll for the employees paychecks, and (2) I think Jol was trying to market the Hamer line to a customer that can afford those prices and has the mindset that the more something costs the better it is. I have no idea what the salary structure for the craftsmen at Hamer is, but I would imagine that Hamer would have to pay them in line with their level of expertise (as in most professions)? While I do prefer the Arlington Heights Hamers there is no arguement that the current staff are doing some absolutely stunning guitars in terms of inlay work, binding, finish, etc.

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That said, I do think the pro mods have succeeding in getting the

attention of people who would never have picked up a charvel to

give the rest of their product line a serious look.

+1, I would have never considered a Charvel, but when I saw that they had lowered the already bargain price to $699 new on the Tele style ones, I went and checked one out with credit card ready to go. Had the necks been beefier I would have walked out with a purple metallic one :P To be fair to Jol going frugal didn't seem to really work out so great for Hamer in the mid-90's. The Diablo, Special, Eclipse, Daytona, T-51 etc. were all high quality low bling guitars being sold at attractive street prices. From what I've read from some of the dealers posts (and what I saw in stores myself), there were still alot of those guitars sitting in stores or being moved at discount prices in order to get them sold....BUT at least most of them eventually sold (so the product line did get out there). I honestly don't know what the answer is for Hamer USA until they can figure out how to get used product prices/resale up or create brand new products that don't have a used market model hurting new guitar sales?

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If you do get a more wallet-friendly new Hamer, it's going to have to run no less than $1,500 STREET. They simply can't build a quality guitar for $1k, and neither can anybody else in the US.

http://www.usmasters.com/under1000.htm

THAT'S what I'm talking about!

To be fair to Jol going frugal didn't seem to really work out so great for Hamer in the mid-90's. The Diablo, Special, Eclipse, Daytona, T-51 etc. were all high quality low bling guitars being sold at attractive street prices.

1: Ugly headstocks do not help selling tons of guitars; unless a famous and admired dude uses them publicly

2: Many of the Daytonas/T51s were actually very heavy, a rare building mistake from Hamer. Those were relevant products, IMO, but invalidated the "you can buy a Hamer unseen" mantra.

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Jol was trying to market the Hamer line to a customer that can afford those prices and has the mindset that the more something costs the better it is.

+1 here. My thought exactly. Cross-reference Guitar Aficionado.

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If you do get a more wallet-friendly new Hamer, it's going to have to run no less than $1,500 STREET. They simply can't build a quality guitar for $1k, and neither can anybody else in the US.

http://www.usmasters.com/under1000.htm

THAT'S what I'm talking about!

To be fair to Jol going frugal didn't seem to really work out so great for Hamer in the mid-90's. The Diablo, Special, Eclipse, Daytona, T-51 etc. were all high quality low bling guitars being sold at attractive street prices.

1: Ugly headstocks do not help selling tons of guitars

Are we talking about Hamer or US Masters?

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Are we talking about Hamer or US Masters?

El, I was attempting to answer holLoWskull's question as to why Hamer's "frugal" models did not sell.

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