How Bad Could This Be?

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scalloped-Fingerboard-Yngwie-Malmsteen-yellow-cream-ST-electric-guitar-guitarra/162091369236?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36860%26meid%3Db4c6c8acd2fe4b27b009e670d399e7ff%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D252407348623

 

The scalloping looks professional.

It appears to have Noiseless pickups, which are pretty good if real.

If not, a loaded pickguard is easy to get.

Easy to get replacement locking tuners.

Easy to drop in a SuperVee Bladerunner.

Unless the body is plywood, it's kind of difficult to screw up a guitar body, right?

It seems like one could use this guitar to build a kick-ass hot-rod guitar for an additional $400 or so, and have a top-notch guitar for under $600.

What am I missing? holes not lining up right? Horrible nut? cheap fret material?

[cmatthes]

It's a counterfeit/forgery, thus technically, illegal for you to purchase.  Sure, it doesn't show the headstock, but you know what it is going to look like and what it says.  You have zero recourse if it gets snagged by US Customs (which they DO intercept on occasion).  

With all the quality LEGAL options out there, why would you risk it?  I get that it isn't much money to gamble with, but those are 100% not real Fender Noiseless pickups, and you're not assured that any of the parts will line up with quality replacement parts.  The seller has a feedback score of "(2)", which tells me that he has been shut down at least once under another ID.  There are also several others with the same deal going right now...including the same pictures.

Go for it if you like, but I wouldn't.

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

That's the type of thing I wanted to know.

I didn't consider the possibility of it getting grabbed by customs...I wasn't really considering it might be a forgery, just a cheap copy of a strat like a Slammer by Hamer or something.

[kizanski]

"guitar body is basswood ,change to alder , you ned pay 30$ guitar neck is maple ,all is solid wood, high quality ,sound is well when i see you paid ,i will send it in 2 day ,usually,i sent by EMS ,EMS shipping time is 10-15 day ,if EMS can't sent ,i will sent by china post , shipping time is 18-25 day ,you get guitar will exact same to the picture show ,if you want see other real picture ,please contact me"

He writes like someone we know.

[jaberwock]

 My friend bought back a Tele copy back from China ( complete with Fender decals ), it was a higher spec model, and cost 200 US, came with Wilkinson PU's, and reasonable quality hardware, the body was on the heavy side, but the neck was straight, and the guitar was put together quite well; normally I won't work on these guitars, but it was for his son's birthday, and he had his heart set on a red Tele, so I changed the bridge ( Wlikinson ), nut, fret job, cleaned up the neck joint, and shielded the electronics; it played well, and sounded decent.

 

Overall for what it cost him I would say a Yamaha Pacifica, was a better buy.

 

 I've see some truly atrocious copies selling for around the 100 $ mark, they look really good from a distance, but on closer inspection are horrible.....beware !!

    Jaberwock 

[crunchee]

I don't even like Chinese-made guitar cases, much less Chinese-made guitars.  Only God and the people who churn them out know what's in those things, especially if they don't have approval from the official licensing company.  Run, don't walk, away.  

[BubbaVO]

Or you could go for a MIM strat.  There are quite a few fans of those here and on other websites.  And then if you really don't like the neck replace it. Seems like you should be able to keep it under  $600 and still have a great guitar.

[DaveH]

Meh, the fret markers are off center. 

[velorush]

Consumer Sovereignty: a helpful theoretical view that the consumer's dollar is a "vote" and with that vote the consumer "elects" products to remain in the marketplace. 

By "voting" for these affronts (to intellectual property, investment in market development and private property rights, among a host of other things), you signal the perpetrator to remain in the market (i.e., "elect" them to continue with their theft of what others have created and developed).

[Hbom]

2 hours ago, BubbaVO said:

Or you could go for a MIM strat.  There are quite a few fans of those here and on other websites.  And then if you really don't like the neck replace it. Seems like you should be able to keep it under  $600 and still have a great guitar.

If you watch you can pick up a USA Diablo for about the same as a MIM strat.

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

3 hours ago, BubbaVO said:

Or you could go for a MIM strat.  There are quite a few fans of those here and on other websites.  And then if you really don't like the neck replace it. Seems like you should be able to keep it under  $600 and still have a great guitar.

I want a scalloped fretboard guitar.  The entire guitar, shipped from China, is cheaper than buying a scalloped neck.

 

I never want to buy a fake, a deliberate attempt to pass something off as the real thing.

I talked to the seller, and he said it is a replica, so he isn't trying to pass it off as a Fender or genuine.  No deceit involved, so I feel better about that.

But I probably still won't get it.  Too many risks all the way around.

[Sugartune]

"Guitar is basswood, changed to Alder"???????

I'd like to know the alchemy involved there. 

Nope, bad idea alert! 

ETA: It's not actually the guitar in the photo, since they offer a $30 upgrade to Alder if you prefer that over Basswood. 

 

 

[BubbaVO]

40 minutes ago, Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame said:

I want a scalloped fretboard guitar.  The entire guitar, shipped from China, is cheaper than buying a scalloped neck.

 

True. 

 

 

 

 

[carfish7]

I have one you can borrow until you get sick of it. Don't support those criminals.

[velorush]

2 hours ago, Sugartune said:

"Guitar is basswood, changed to Alder"???????

I'd like to know the alchemy involved there.

"She turned me into a newt!"

"I got better... "

[a.bandini]

Buying this guitar is like buying a "Coach" purse  near Canal St. in NYC.  

You know it is fake.

Don't do it; don't rationalize it.  

The landfills have enough crap in them already. 

[cmatthes]

7 hours ago, Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame said:

I never want to buy a fake, a deliberate attempt to pass something off as the real thing.

I talked to the seller, and he said it is a replica, so he isn't trying to pass it off as a Fender or genuine.  No deceit involved, so I feel better about that.

It has a Fender logo decal.  That's not a "replica".  Call it what you want, rationalize all day long...you know it's a fake/forgery.

That decision is on you.

[cynic]

9 hours ago, Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame said:

I talked to the seller, and he said it is a replica, so he isn't trying to pass it off as a Fender or genuine.  No deceit involved, so I feel better about that.

Of course there's deceit involved.  You (the criminal) are attempting to deceive US trademark, copyright, and customs laws by illegally importing a known forgery.

[jaberwock]

Copyright aside, what concerns me is that although you know it's a fake, at some point in the future, unknown to you, some poor dupe could  be sold this thinking it's the real deal. 

[BadgerDave]

I'd be very surprised if the guitar a buyer receives looks remotely close to the guitar in the photos.  The counterfeiters often use photos of genuine Fender and Gibson guitars in their ads.

[Dasein]

You gotta say no to cheap ass Chinese made goods because it hurts me in the feels when people buy cheap ass products. I don't want a new cheap ass toaster every 2 years - I want a good one that lasts me 20 years (or more). I'll eat soft bread and go toastless until I have the money.  I'm the same way with pretty much everything. Quality or nothing.

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

 

Here's what I got to scratch the scalloped fretboard itch:

https://reverb.com/item/2213309-amazing-scalloped-neck-guitar-made-by-a-professional-luthier-rare-1990-s-top-notch-electronic

Thanks for all the advice and input.

 

[velorush]

9 hours ago, Dasein said:

You gotta say no to cheap ass Chinese made goods because it hurts me in the feels when people buy cheap ass products. I don't want a new cheap ass toaster every 2 years - I want a good one that lasts me 20 years (or more). I'll eat soft bread and go toastless until I have the money.  I'm the same way with pretty much everything. Quality or nothing.

Closed today, WalMart.  All of them.  How would you be affected?

The fact of the matter, from a cold, logical, economic perspective, is that China has a comparative advantage over most of the developed world in low labor costs (now, I'll leave the debate of the ethics of that to others - cold and logical, remember?).  By taking advantage of the comparative advantage through trade, all participants raise their standard of living over what would be possible without trade (see the work of David Ricardo). 

With trade based on comparative advantage:

• less expensive goods allow more people in the higher-wage country to purchase more and different products - see WalMart
• increased demand for labor in the lower-wage country actually increases wage rates (note the rise of the Chinese middle class over the past ten years)
• however, in a vacuum, demand for displaced labor in the higher-wage country falls, reducing aggregate wages
• also, however, higher levels of disposable income in the higher-wage country (remember, lots of stuff becomes cheaper?) stimulates demand in other areas of the economy, increasing wage rates in those labor markets - fast food, anyone?

Is this good? Bad? Depends on who you're talking to. If you're like my dad, 'retired' early (well, 20 years ago) from managing manufacturing concerns, it's really bad. If you're talking to a poor family trying to make ends meet, it's actually really good... until they go looking for a high-paying manufacturing job the likes of which many of us grew up beneficiaries. On the other hand, if you're working the docks on the West Coast, business is booming. It's an economic shift. These have happened in the past and will continue to happen in the future - and always, "good" and "bad" have only to do with where the holder of the opinion lies in the shift.

To (hopefully) end this unrequested manifesto: as certain political candidates (and there are many more than just the one) raise the populist mantra, "stick it to China," I wonder how many of the crowd yelling, "oh hell yeah!" are ready to pay $1,000 for the television that last year cost $250, $225 for the $50 bicycle (note: this is not at all meant to be a political statement, just carrying the philosophy to its logical conclusion).  The law of unintended consequences has not been repealed.

 

Sorry to interrupt.  Nathan, wonderful snag for your scalloped-fret experimentation.  I like the Kahler, too.  Would be very interested to hear how you like fretting on air. I am so clumsy with my fretting hand I am certain it for me spell would spell disaster (pulled sharp) with every note.

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

13 minutes ago, velorush said:

Nathan, wonderful snag for your scalloped-fret experimentation.  I like the Kahler, too.  Would be very interested to hear how you like fretting on air. I am so clumsy with my fretting hand I am certain it for me spell would spell disaster (pulled sharp) with every note.

I usually have a pretty light touch, I think. I had no problems with the scallops on the Virtuoso!

But I decided *not* to buy a scalloped fretboard jazz guitar for this very reason. MichaelB pointed out that fumbling through unfamiliar jazz chord shapes would probably result in tighter grip and out-of-tune chord tones.

Anyway, it is just for fun. I might hate it and sell it within a few weeks. Who knows?

[Dasein]

5 hours ago, velorush said:

Closed today, WalMart.  All of them.  How would you be affected?

The fact of the matter, from a cold, logical, economic perspective, is that China has a comparative advantage over most of the developed world in low labor costs (now, I'll leave the debate of the ethics of that to others - cold and logical, remember?).  By taking advantage of the comparative advantage through trade, all participants raise their standard of living over what would be possible without trade (see the work of David Ricardo). 

With trade based on comparative advantage:

• less expensive goods allow more people in the higher-wage country to purchase more and different products - see WalMart
• increased demand for labor in the lower-wage country actually increases wage rates (note the rise of the Chinese middle class over the past ten years)
• however, in a vacuum, demand for displaced labor in the higher-wage country falls, reducing aggregate wages
• also, however, higher levels of disposable income in the higher-wage country (remember, lots of stuff becomes cheaper?) stimulates demand in other areas of the economy, increasing wage rates in those labor markets - fast food, anyone?

Is this good? Bad? Depends on who you're talking to. If you're like my dad, 'retired' early (well, 20 years ago) from managing manufacturing concerns, it's really bad. If you're talking to a poor family trying to make ends meet, it's actually really good... until they go looking for a high-paying manufacturing job the likes of which many of us grew up beneficiaries. On the other hand, if you're working the docks on the West Coast, business is booming. It's an economic shift. These have happened in the past and will continue to happen in the future - and always, "good" and "bad" have only to do with where the holder of the opinion lies in the shift.

To (hopefully) end this unrequested manifesto: as certain political candidates (and there are many more than just the one) raise the populist mantra, "stick it to China," I wonder how many of the crowd yelling, "oh hell yeah!" are ready to pay $1,000 for the television that last year cost $250, $225 for the $50 bicycle (note: this is not at all meant to be a political statement, just carrying the philosophy to its logical conclusion).  The law of unintended consequences has not been repealed.

 

Sorry to interrupt.  Nathan, wonderful snag for your scalloped-fret experimentation.  I like the Kahler, too.  Would be very interested to hear how you like fretting on air. I am so clumsy with my fretting hand I am certain it for me spell would spell disaster (pulled sharp) with every note.

I know China has lower wages -- and those low wages help produce things like smart phones that are high quality and cheaper.  So why don't we take advantage of the cheap labor and make high quality consumer goods across the board?

What I don't like about Walmart goods is cheap ass crap.  I know a little about manufacturing and pricing --- I know that a $15 toaster's landed cost is around $1 to $2.  And when it burns out after a year of use (or the plastic cracks, or the slider catch breaks) you just toss it in the garbage.  $60 dollar toasters landed costs are around $4 to $5 dollars -- they're still crap - I don't want one of those either.  I just want a really good toaster -- I want a Hamer toaster - one that's well designed and made and will last me for years & years making great toast.  Today's $200 dollar toasters have landed costs around $30 --- and they're still pieces of crap. There are no good toasters - they just don't exist.

Sure I know about "planned obsolescence" but can't we demand quality design and manufacturing?

I just go back in time to when I was a kid and the family budget was tight. I wanted "branded" jeans - say for example Levis.  My family couldn't afford them so they'd go to K-Mart and try to buy off-brand jeans for me.  I told them no (if you remember those jeans you'd probably agree) and that I'd happily do without new Jeans and just wear something else until I could actually afford them.

I bought an Onkyo Home Theater system about 5 years ago.... well within 4 years the HDMI card in it has failed. It's a know manufacturing issue with several Onkyo receivers - bad traces on the board (cheap ass manufacturing). Onkyo are replacing boards under special warranty on select models because the issue was so bad -- my model is currently not on the list because I guess not enough of them have failed to be egregious.

I can maybe take the HDMI board out of the receiver myself and put it in the oven and try to remelt the solder (at my own risk) and I may be able to "fix" it.  But I shouldn't have to.

I've still got my original JVC PC11C Ghetto Blaster/component system -- My home stereo consists on my 70's Sansui 7070 receiver that I inherited from my Grandfather in 1986 (that I've recapped once).  These were high quality consumer goods.  Let me say this - no one is going to inherit my Onkyo when I die but I can tell you I've got Nieces and Nephews already asking me about the Sansui.(I'm only 46).

The problem is that people want it all now.  People can now buy a cheap ass 70" flat screen for less than $500. They are pieces of crap with shitty colour and technical specs and have a life span of just a couple years before they fail ----- but for me if I only had $500 to spend on a TV I know that I can buy the best 27" or 32" or even 40" for that money.  I'd skip the 70" in a heart beat.

Anyway -- that's my rant.  I just wish there was more demand for better goods or that that demand was being met.

[a.bandini]

Design's got it right.   

Insist on quality and value.