BubbaVO Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 I was surfing the net and came across an article about treble bleed kits. I don't know very much about them so I thought I check with you for your collective wisdom. Have you used one? Practically speaking - does it really work? In what kind of guitars do you find it most useful?
Victor (Fret Friend) Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 Yeah, they work! I make my own. You can get more info here; If you like it, rather than add clips, just solder it between lugs 1 + 2 of your volume pot...
stonge Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 I put treble bleeds in any telecaster I plan to use live; rolling off the volume pot without it turned my esquire into a bucket of mud going into my pedal board. My first pedal is usually a Wampler Velvet Fuzz, which crunches when you roll off the volume pot on the guitar and screams like Hendrix when you roll it back up (without the treble bleed it sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher when you roll off the volume pot). My Gretsch Setzer could use one but I don't feel like chasing wiring through a hollowbody just yet. For the most part you can avoid a lot of the tone change by using a volume pedal after the guitar and before the amp and any pedals. Backing off the volume pedal doesn't go to mud like using the on-board volume. I prefer to use the volume pedal after the board and before the amp so the treble bleed is useful to me.
BubbaVO Posted September 30, 2016 Author Posted September 30, 2016 ^ Hmm.. I like the idea of the clips. It's a easily reversible mod. What values for the cap/resistor do you think would work best on a hog/maple/humbuck'd guitar? Or is that even the right way to think about this thing?
tomteriffic Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 8 hours ago, BubbaVO said: ^ Hmm.. I like the idea of the clips. It's a easily reversible mod. What values for the cap/resistor do you think would work best on a hog/maple/humbuck'd guitar? Or is that even the right way to think about this thing? I've put them in a number of my guitars, single and humbuckered. There doesn't seem to be a lot of rhyme or reason to which guitar is going to need it and which won't. I can only guess that the degree of infraglomerular strandelosity in the pickup-pot-amp relationship has something to do with it. I usually live in the clean to moderate gain range, so backing off the volume without the top end going with it is important to me. I don't know that it gets as fine as the wood type, but the cap value may play into whether you're using single coils or humbuckers. a 600pf to.1000pf cap is a good place to start, and a resistor value in the neighborhood of 200K is a good place to start. Acme Guitars used to make some prewired cap/resistor pairs specifically for single coils or humbuckers. Unfortunately, I forget what the values were and they closed up shop. I've been using a set from JK Bookshelf (he has an eBay store) because he's local to me and a good guy. It's a 680pf cap and a 150K resistor. For what it's worth, I put this set into a 90's Phantom and it behaved the same whether I was using the single-coil or the humbucker.
Armitage Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 It's much more natural sounding, and the volume control works more naturally if you put the cap and resister in series.
FrettyMcgee Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 Wait, the volume knob that goes to 10 can also go back down??? I just picked up some caps and resisters to make a few of my own. I was thinking the Diablo might be a good candidate. Its a weird thing. The older I get, the more volume knob is getting rolled back. Go figure.
Jakeboy Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 I have always just used 50s wiring in all my guitars and been perfectly happy with that....then I bought an Emerson wiring kit for my tele-type with a treble bleed network. Damn. it really works well. Tone control works the whole way (like a Hamer) and the treble maintains when the volume knob goes down. if they all work this well, I don't know why we all don't use them.
scottcald Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Jakeboy said: I have always just used 50s wiring in all my guitars and been perfectly happy with that....then I bought an Emerson wiring kit for my tele-type with a treble bleed network. Damn. it really works well. Tone control works the whole way (like a Hamer) and the treble maintains when the volume knob goes down. if they all work this well, I don't know why we all don't use them. Better yet, why isn't it standard wiring practice from manufacturers?
Ting Ho Dung Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 15 hours ago, tomteriffic said: infraglomerular strandelosity Wha.......
bubs_42 Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 I have them on EVERY GUITAR I have. I've tried it before in the past but just didn't dig it. My local tech and I were talking one day and he handed me the ones that he was putting on guitars that he was making in the shop. Supposed to be what PRS uses and once I put it on my guitar, I fell in love. The Volume Pot is usable all the way down to 1 and with a really good amp and a pure single path damn does it sound good. The guitar related "Mods" that I find to be magical are the Treble Bleed, The Peter Green Mod and what ever the hell the anomaly that is the Middle Position of a Prototype with the tone knob rolled back. I f'ed up getting that tone built into the the two Phantoms I had reworked.
Dave Scepter Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/capacitors
bubs_42 Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 Its all about balance, too much is too much. You don't want to have all high end as you roll down, you (I) still wanted balance. Only guitar that I ever played that did't need a treble bleed was the Newport and I don't know why that is. Hell I forget that I have the volume knob down sometimes and just go with it.
Rich_S Posted November 7, 2016 Posted November 7, 2016 I put treble bleeds on both volume pots in my Schecter PT (with a Duncan '59 set) over the weekend and it's a whole new guitar. Before, even the slightest reduction of the volume control took out all the clarity and jangle. The guitar sounded like wet cardboard unless the volume was at 10. The only way to get "less" was to use the coil split, and for "more" I used my BB Preamp. With the treble bleed, I can run my guitar volume around 7, turn it up for "more" and down for "less". The pot is useable all the way down to zero, and very smooth over its whole sweep. I used the very common values of .001 uF and 150K in parallel. Big happy-time when I discovered four 100 uF Orange Drops in my spare parts box. The PT has two volume pots and no tone controls, so '50s wiring was not an option. I have a full complement of pots, knobs, switch, and jack on order to upgrade the electronics in my Slammer Series Sunburst (with Josh's awesome pickups) this week. I'm going to put the same treble bleeds on the new volume pots.
Armitage Posted November 7, 2016 Posted November 7, 2016 If you put them in series, the control is much more natural sounding, it doesn't remove bass and then tun down, it just turns down with the highs intack.
bubs_42 Posted November 7, 2016 Posted November 7, 2016 I use the Duncan or PRS Style. I have them on every single guitar. Even just wired up the tele and put one on because I missed it so much.
diablo175 Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 On 9/30/2016 at 7:41 PM, FrettyMcgee said: Wait, the volume knob that goes to 10 can also go back down??? I just picked up some caps and resisters to make a few of my own. I was thinking the Diablo might be a good candidate. Its a weird thing. The older I get, the more volume knob is getting rolled back. Go figure. Fretty beat me to the punchline. Truthfully, I rarely use the guitar's vol. control, save for complete shutdowns when I'm not near my volume pedal. The volume/expression pedal on my ME50 does a great job and doesn't suffer from treble issues.
velorush Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 The Volume control is my most important effect. I've only tried a treble bleed once (in a Strat) - hated it. I probably should have experimented with more values and configurations, but I've kind of gotten used to the treble roll-off. I think with the correct volume pot value (for a given pickup set), treble roll-off isn't as much of an issue as it could be.
Dave Scepter Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 1 hour ago, velorush said: The Volume control is my most important effect. +1 especially with the proper amp
bubs_42 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 So full swing after Murkat sent me a new harness for my LP. NO need for the treble bleed. So I got to thinking about my Tele, I put a treble bleed on it asap when I did the wiring. I put Fender CS Pots (bourns) in it and I have not been a happy camper. So after installing and testing a new set of pups, I decided to remove the treble bleed. Bingo, the pots work fantastic even the tone control. From 10 to 0 its a smooth transition with no tone loss. Even does the Wah Wah think on the tone pot. So now both of my guitars are Treble Bleed Mod Free. Must be in the pots?
tomteriffic Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 4 hours ago, bubs_42 said: So full swing after Murkat sent me a new harness for my LP. NO need for the treble bleed. So I got to thinking about my Tele, I put a treble bleed on it asap when I did the wiring. I put Fender CS Pots (bourns) in it and I have not been a happy camper. So after installing and testing a new set of pups, I decided to remove the treble bleed. Bingo, the pots work fantastic even the tone control. From 10 to 0 its a smooth transition with no tone loss. Even does the Wah Wah think on the tone pot. So now both of my guitars are Treble Bleed Mod Free. Must be in the pots? As I mentioned early on in this thread, infraglomerular strandelosity
Rich_S Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 Okay, I take back what I said above, back on Nov. 7. To my ear, the the oft-recommended values .001 uF and 150K in parallel are just too much. There's NO reduction in treble as I turn down and the volume control is ineffective. Without the treble bleeds, my usable volume range was maybe 7-10, now the volume doesn't drop off much until I get the pot below 4, and to really clean it up I need to turn down below 2. I guess I'm looking for something in between the .001 uF/150K setup and no treble bleed at all. Back in the '80s I had an original US-made Schecter Saturn (PT) that had a parallel R/C treble bleed circuit that was great, but I have no idea what values they used. So, if no treble bleed is a bit muddy and the volume drops off too fast, but the .001 uF/150K values keep too much treble with volume dropping off too slowly, what values should I try next? For reference, the guitars are: Schecter PT with a Duncan '59 set and two 500K volume pots (no tone control) Hamer Sunburst with Josh Gravelin pickups (7.7k neck and 10.8k bridge); two volume, one tone, all 500K.
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