Fender goes full Gibson, Declares war on entire S-body shape industry.

[tbonesullivan]

Fender won a regional court case in Düsseldorf, Germany, against a company that pumps out strat clones on Ali-Express. Well, they kinda won, as the other party never bothered to show up, so technically it's a "default" ruling". But now they have decided to use this to send C&D letters to pretty much every company that sells guitars through Thomann in Germany, and most likely would love to bring this back to the U.S., but unfortunately the strat body was already declared generic.

However that hasn't stopped them from going after U.S. companies that sell internationally. LSL got papers sent, and who knows who else. Since they already own Bigsby, the company Leo ripped the Strat headstock shape from, and also now that I guess they got the rights to Leo Fenders name from the bankruptcy of G&L, I guess they want to start suing everyone like Gibson.

https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/electric-guitars/fender-cease-and-desist-lsl-instruments

[scottcald]

Tim Pierce put out a commentary video basically ripping on Fender and saying they've become an enemy of the industry. 

 

Edited Tuesday at 04:30 AM by scottcald

[RobB]

Meh. Let their castles burn, and don’t expect me to piss on the flames. 

[diablo175]

Another vid on the topic. 

 

[velorush]

I think the primary problem is over seventy years of failure to defend.

It would be difficult to argue sudden harm when you've been letting it go for the better part of a century. 

Edited Tuesday at 01:16 PM by velorush

[tbonesullivan]

41 minutes ago, velorush said:

I think the primary problem is over seventy years of failure to defend.

It would be difficult to argue sudden harm when you've been letting it go for the better part of a century. 

I think that's exactly what was ruled in the united states when they tried to trademark the shape. I'm pretty sure they did this in Germany because the laws are different. Though it might have been good for the company they sued to actually do something. The problem is that they seem to be going directly after smaller companies that don't have large legal resources. 

Of course now I wonder if they are going to go after Kramer guitars as well, which is owned by Gibson. Ibanez also makes strat type guitars.

[Steve Haynie]

Maybe Fender can merge with Monster Cable.  

[veatch]

Fender can merge their lips to my aged saggy ass, as far as I'm concerned. They'll never get another penny of my money. Nothing has changed that opinion since 2012. 

[django49]

I guess we all have stories of builders that do a better job (YMMV) of building vintage style guitars than the typical mass produced ones cranked out by Fender. Applies to Gibson too, of course. 

Not that the original designs are not "classic" and game changers in their time. But some things can be improved. Needs of players do change. I appreciate builders who recognize the original designs but put efforts into attention to detail to make them as good as they can be. (I know the ones I like). Assembly lines cranking them out in huge volumes do not have that luxury. 

Leo famously laughed when asked about the quality control that made those 50s Strats so desirable. "You must have been very careful about matching those 3 pickups!" "Hell no, our gals grabbed three out of a huge pickle barrel, screwed them on and passed it on down the line".

FWIW, I understand that many old "vintage" models were destroyed intentionally.....If you sent one back to Fender to be refinished, they simply built you a new one in the desired finish. It was cheaper than taking one apart and redoing it. And that was when (IIRC) the music store that told me that was offering brand new Strats for $269. Leo knew, to the penny, the material cost of building one.....A friend of his back in the day quoted Leo to me....."$36.59"....I may have the exact number wrong after all these years, but it was right around that amount.

Of course, in those days, the music stores I went to MIGHT have 1 or 2 in stock, not a whole store room full......

[velorush]

1 hour ago, django49 said:

I guess we all have stories of builders that do a better job (YMMV) of building vintage style guitars than the typical mass produced ones cranked out by Fender. Applies to Gibson too, of course. 

That was one of Tim Pierce's main points. 

The principle is found in all of modern human endeavor: if you can't compete (ideas, product quality, innovation, aesthetics, insert anything else), litigate. 

[LucSulla]

2 hours ago, tbonesullivan said:

I think that's exactly what was ruled in the united states when they tried to trademark the shape. I'm pretty sure they did this in Germany because the laws are different. Though it might have been good for the company they sued to actually do something. The problem is that they seem to be going directly after smaller companies that don't have large legal resources. 

Of course now I wonder if they are going to go after Kramer guitars as well, which is owned by Gibson. Ibanez also makes strat type guitars.

The did it in Germany by going after copyright infringement vs. trademark infringement. They claimed the stratocaster body is a "work of art" based on the body of a woman. 

Annnnd they also brought it against a Chinese counterfeit product where the defendant didn't even present a defense, so they won basically by default. 

[django49]

11 minutes ago, velorush said:

That was one of Tim Pierce's main points. 

The principle is found in all of modern human endeavor: if you can't compete (ideas, product quality, innovation, aesthetics, insert anything else), litigate. 

"My lawyer can beat up your lawyer!"
 

[velorush]

1 hour ago, django49 said:

"My lawyer can beat up your lawyer!"
 

Or, "I am unable to best you (situationally specific), so I'll tie you up in the courts until you relent"

[tbonesullivan]

1 hour ago, velorush said:

That was one of Tim Pierce's main points. 

The principle is found in all of modern human endeavor: if you can't compete (ideas, product quality, innovation, aesthetics, insert anything else), litigate. 

I actually had been planning on selling my G&L Legacies eventually, but now I think I want to keep them just to spite Fender. Even though I have like... 5 Fender guitars / basses.

[JohnZ]

…totally confusing. Who should enforce and execute on Fender‘s behalf in Europe? This will be more expensive for Fender than hiring the best and creating the best for available money. Not to speak about loss of reputation. This is simply stupid. 

[BTMN]

All I can add to this is that I have only owned 1 Fender Strat and have only owned a couple real Gibbers. 2 The Paul’s at that. My favorite Tele and Strat are Hamer products. My favorite LP type guitar would be any Hamer that I have owned but I do have a couple LP clones from a luthier out of Pennsylvania that are pretty stellar. The big guys make a ton of money and have for a long time. Dean, Hamer, and some of the bigger import companies have made cool instruments for 40+ years now. I wonder how much they have really cut into the big boys sales. Looks like the pie is big enough to support a few. Bad ones always fade away but the good ones stay around. Some even go on to become factors of their own. I’m thinking of Ibanez with that comment. I like the variety. Hell I love Hamer Standards cause of the LP like accoutrements on an Explorer shape. Gibber tried Hamer’s styling and it didn’t do nearly as well as a Hamer Standard. The E2  was heavy and just not as cool as a Standard. So there’s that part of it. 
 

Just my 2 cents.
😎👍❤️🏁

[kizanski]

Yet another reason to be happy I'm out of the guitar game.

F this S.

[Greg G]

I’ve got a great idea.  Fender should hire Mark Agnesi to make a video explaining the rationale for the situation.  You know, to smooth things over.  None are more qualified.

[hamerican gigolo]

Who at Fender is as " authentic " as Mr. Agnesi??? 🤔

[LucSulla]

I chipped in to help fund LSL's lawsuit against Fender. 

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-us-defend-s-style-guitars

Seriously, fuck Fender for this. I know there are some great guitar builders who work there, but this is just everything I hate about business today. 

[django49]

[DarkHammer]

It's a good thing Fender can't go after Hamer, so we will continue to enjoy the guitars.

[JohnZ]

As for the Guitar Summit in Mannheim this year, I will wear dark smart glasses and trenchcoat. Licensed FBI agent - Fender Bollocks Intelligence. There will be more with the same idea…