Shipping Guitars, in Winter, from FL

[Michael_B]

Apparently, a guitar that I recently shipped from FL's near 90s temperatures to MN's sub-freezing temperatures proved too extreme for the finish, which cracked along the binding. The buyer's returning it for a full refund. It sucks that it's my risk, but I guess that's the way it goes.

Any recommendations on how to prevent that, in the future?

Otherwise, I'm going to be precautionary and hold off on selling guitars in the winter.

[django49]

As best I know, from limited experience, there should not be a problem IF the person receiving it lets it acclimate GRADUALLY before whipping it outta the box/hard case.

Our temps are not often extreme, but it is not unusual for the shipping box to come in from an outside winter temperature in the 40s.....With no good way of knowing how long it has been exposed to the cold (though it has usually been inside a truck that should NOT be that cold). BUT it may have been in a truck overnight.....

I always bring it into the house (probably a mid-60s temp), let it sit awhile, open the ends of the shipping box (which should provide SOME insulation), let sit, pull out the case, let sit, open the HSC (a crack) to let warmer air in gradually, let sit.

I have been told that "modern electrics travel very well". It was likely a fast change in temperature rather than the actual exposure to cold. In short, the finish and the wood both expand and shrink at different rates.......Gradual changes SHOULD not be a problem. RAPID changes, different story.

Yeah, I know......PATIENCE when getting a new toy?

My only experience (it was here) involved shipping a nice Hamer. Upon arrival, there was a MINOR separation of the binding in the cutaway. I refunded the money, as a reduced price was not acceptable. To my surprise, UPS insurance shipped it back and PAID for the reduced value and I later sold it (also here) to another member---WITH full disclosure and a reduced price. He expressed complete satisfaction.

I have heard (not experienced) stories of a "vintage" instrument being brought into a warm store, from the trunk of a car where it had sat overnight, and being able to see and hear the finish crack when the case is opened.

Sorry to hear about that. The saving grace is that the damage is almost certainly cosmetic (and to the value) and not to functionality.

[crunchee]

Did this guitar have a nitro finish? They definitely are prone to weather-checking...polyester or polyurethane, not so much. Back when I was buying guitars often, sometimes I would get a shipping box with a warning label to let the box warm up indoors for 24 hours before opening, if it was coming from a cold region. It wouldn't surprise me if the buyer went ahead and opened it immediately anyway, and it can't be proven that they didn't take slow warming precautions if they said they did.

[Michael_B]

Thanks for the reply. I wasn't even going to bother with contacting the shipper, because I figured disavow anything that doesn't involved a smashed box. There is a very attractive young woman that works at my FedEx drop-off point. I might just have to go talk with her on Monday.

[Armitage]

The new owner didn't let the guitar/box come up to temperature before he opened it. It's his fault, not yours.

[django49]

Be sure to post pictures----of her!

Joking.....

Here is why I had good luck. I had shipped that one from a dealer owned store----This being before I knew how much I was OVERpaying by doing so. I talked to the OWNER, who knew how many times I HAD shipped there. They could have very easily denied everything, but she did go to bat for me. (It helped that I had good pix before shipment, also from the buyer AND UPS shipped the box back to her after repacking it, so she could see for herself exactly what shape it was in and the packaging).

FWIW, I got a quote from a highly regarded repair cat here indicating the repair, if I needed to make it, would likely be $125-150,not counting shipping.......

[PaGator]

Agree with django49 completely. Our temperature in the Pittsburgh area can be pretty variable in the winter and humidity can swing quite a bit in the summer. The "acclimation" process really in critical to minimize any impact from change in temperature and/or humidity. I have had guitars shipped from Florida to Pittsburgh in the winter and recently received 2 guitars from the San Francisco area that had to travel the entire country through significant temperature variation and didn't have an issue with either by following a process similar to what django49 described.

[Studio Custom]

All guitars that travel air mail are in a very cold shipping haul.

[cynic]

It wouldn't surprise me if the buyer went ahead and opened it immediately anyway, and it can't be proven that they didn't take slow warming precautions if they said they did.

You might be able to get an idea by counting the minutes between the delivery time and the time stamp on the whiny email, but it doesn't help because while we can be pretty certain his lack of patience is to blame, there's just no way to prove it.

I've never thought about it, but that might be something worthwhile to discuss pre-shipping. It still offers no guarantee, but it could provide the education needed to avoid the hassle of returns of crazed finishes.

[Brentrocks]

The new owner didn't let the guitar/box come up to temperature before he opened it. It's his fault, not yours.

Exactly

[django49]

Sometimes I wish it was kosher to produce a list of DAMFs to avoid dealing with.....Dumb Ass MFs.

[Armitage]

Guitar finishes usually crack when warming up too quickly... not simply from getting cold...

[ARM OF HAMER]

I have not had any issues when receiving a guitar here in Minnesota where it can be intensely cold but then like has been mentioned.................I wait to open the box till the next day. I shipped a valuable Yamaha acoustic to a guy in Alberta Canada.......... in was in a great case and double boxed with tons of packing and it got there just as sent...............he was VERY anxious to get it but he still waited till the next day just to be safe...............a ounce of prevention IS worth a pound of cure.

[Michael_B]

Thanks for the replies. I'll chalk it up to the buyer not letting the case acclimate, prior to opening.

As others have mentioned, whether it was his fault or not, I couldn't prove it.

I'll still talk to the manager of the FedEx store about the damage, but with a fall-back negotiating position of getting her to go grab coffee with me.

[JES1680]

Yep it's unfortunate. My old bass player was un-aware of this and opened a Rickenbacker as soon as it arrived on a cold MN day. He said he could actually see the finish checking as he opened the case. He is Mr OCD and had to get rid of it and take a huge loss as just looking at it drove him nuts.

[hamerhead]

That's why I avoid shipping guitars in cold weather like the plague. It sucks having to wait to open the box, and you have no control over what the buyer does. And unless he sees it happening, he may actually have no clue that he just caused it. He's thinking it was like that before you boxed it up.

It genuinely sucks that it happened.

[django49]

And, of course, there is something "cool" about having a "vintage" instrument......Folks' eyes do get a little wider when I pull this out.

Not that I recommend going all "relic" on whatever it is that you sold......

[cynic]

Is that a Nashville bridge??

[The Shark]

Nothing shipped from Florida is the fault of the "sender", unless it's a structural failure due to inept packing or damage inflicted by the carrier. Finish cracking is entirely the fault of the buyer. The guitar was "frozen" in transit, but that doesn't crack the finish. If allowed to thaw out for 24 to 36 hours, the guitar would be fine. The rapid change of temp is what does it. Not the cold.

[ARM OF HAMER]

Checked instruments can be cool I think. both Hamers and Gibson Les Pauls.

[crunchee]

And, of course, there is something "cool" about having a "vintage" instrument......Folks' eyes do get a little wider when I pull this out.

Not that I recommend going all "relic" on whatever it is that you sold......

Nice! My white '94 Gibson LP Studio is checked along the fretboard edge, where the ebony fretboard meets the mahogany neck, as well as around the controls (which, BTW, is one of the thinnest parts of the body, as the cavity for the controls is right underneath...a common area for weatherchecking on LPs). That particular LP Studio is heavily yellowed, too; so both the yellowing and the weatherchecking is likely NOT from living in a closet for most of it's life. I just accept it as part of it's history, as none of this affects playability, and it looks cool since it's aged and mellowed.

That being said, I once saw a '90's USA Hamer Archtop GT (Gold Top) for sale on FeePay, where somebody had subjected it to a severe and sudden temperature change, and unfortunately the 'catalized' (not nitro) finish on that era Hamers does NOT check like nitro does, when it DOES check (it's a pretty tough check-resistant finish IMO)...the finish looked like window glass that had cracked, not in a spider web, but in a handful of random finish cracks running over the top. It wasn't pretty, and it probably wasn't gonna 'mellow out' over time since the finish is tough to begin with.

[Michael_B]

And, of course, there is something "cool" about having a "vintage" instrument......Folks' eyes do get a little wider when I pull this out.

Not that I recommend going all "relic" on whatever it is that you sold......

Looks cool. I couldn't bring myself to that to a guitar, intentionally.

Nothing shipped from Florida is the fault of the "sender", unless it's a structural failure due to inept packing or damage inflicted by the carrier. Finish cracking is entirely the fault of the buyer. The guitar was "frozen" in transit, but that doesn't crack the finish. If allowed to thaw out for 24 to 36 hours, the guitar would be fine. The rapid change of temp is what does it. Not the cold.

Good to know. It looks like I've got two more going out, this week. One to Las Cruces, NM and possibly another to Houston. I'll label the boxes with a reminder to the buyer to allow 24-36 hours to allow the cased guitar to acclimate.

Thanks for the replies.

[hamerhead]

Be sure to include an explanation as to WHY they should let them acclimate. Maybe include scientific facts, photos, stick figures, cave drawings, whatever - because sometimes the bulb can be a bit dim.

[Hbom]

Bunches of years in a cold climate and I am used to seeing guitars with the finish cracked. (you don't always get hours to wait when you're playing the bar circuit in Alaska)

And I'll admit that after waiting a week or more for a new guitar to arrive, It's really hard to set and watch a box full of wonderment do nothing for hours & hours before I open it. But that's the way you got to do it! Ain't no way around it.

But then again, some people are willing to pay extra for a 'relic' guitar that some super-duper guitar building specialist sticks in the freezer over night and pulls it out in a 90 degree room so it will have all those pretty little cracks!

I'm sorry you had this experience, I agree that it is mostly the buyers fault but what can you say at this point in the game?

Tell them you are going to be nice and NOT charge them anything for the relic work.

[TBP]

Sorry to hear this, and I agree about the likelihood of the buyer not letting it acclimate, unfortunately. I've had a few guitars delivered to the center of the NE Ohio snowbelt on very cold winter days without a problem, as I let them acclimate. (Come to think of it, January-February is usually when the guitar buying bug has hit. I should watch out). But anyway, sadly, you can't prove that's what happened. Depending on how reasonable the buyer is, you may want to ask/mention the possibility so s/he knows not to do it again.

[Thundersteel]

NE Ohio snowbelt

Born and raised there--Trumbull County!