What do you kids know about EMFs? UPDATE!

[hamerhead]

Where do I start? My office at work is about 10 feet x 10 feet and surrounded with electrical panels, fuse boxes, transformers, ect. It has had more and more electrical boxes installed around it over the past 10 years as the company has grown. It's a machine shop with 30 or so CNC mills and lathes, so there's a lot of juice running through there. This last upgrade has landed an 800 lb transformer on top of my office (maybe 8 feet above my head when seated), but thankfully it hasn't been powered up yet.

For shits and giggles I grabbed the old gauss meter from the inspection office and had a go. The needle moved, but not knowing what I was looking at or if the thing was even working correctly, I returned it and didn't think a lot of it. Then I got to reading more on EMFs and health risks, and bought myself a cheap 'ghost hunter' 0- 5 milligauss detector. I  tried it on guitars and amps and stuff around the house, and it worked as it should. Kinda cool, actually, but nothing alarming in any way.

Monday I took it to work and turned it on in my office. The meter went nuts. Pinned the needle EVERYWHERE in there. Not just near panels or lights or computers - everywhere. So I went around the shop. In NO other location could that result be repeated. (I spent Monday afternoon relocating to another part of the shop.)

I'm not sure what 5 milligauss is, or if this meter is even very accurate, but my info search claims more than 2.5 milligauss can be harmful. I'm a little freaked out, but there's so much conflicting opinion on the subject that I don't really know what the hell to believe.

You guys know everything. I need some direction here. I've spent the last 10 years, 10 hours a day, 4 days a week in that office. I've attributed some health weirdnesses to getting old, but damn, I don't know.

[Studio Custom]

I suggest discussing your findings with your local osha office.   

[specialk]

I wouldn't worry too much, but research it for your own peace of mind. Most of my working life was spent around television transmitters and lots of high energy electronics. I'm still normal.

 

On second thought.... 

[Thundersteel]

Gauss is a measurement of magnetic field strength. Whether it's harmful or not, well, that's debatable.  

Still, I wouldn't want to live in a house with power lines nearby.

[Bloozguy]

You have two things going on here -- electric fields and magnetic fields. Both are difficult to measure accurately and are the subject of lots of controversy over just how much exposure is safe. I would suggest you err on the side of caution because both of these types of radiation can have cumulative effects that may not manifest themselves until it is too late.

Wisconsin does not have any EMF exposure limits, but I agree with Studio Custom...an anonymous call to your local OSHA office might be in order.

At the minimum, move your office away from that location. There may also be some way of shielding the area to reduce the exposure.

[JohnnyB]

Since iron is a key ingredient in blood, it seems that long exposure to strong magnetic fields could have some effect on circulation. Maybe it could even cause clots. Just guessing here.

[django49]

I am not sure....This is my former bass player's defensive strategy. At least it looks like Arthur.

More seriously, looking into shielding might not hurt.

[Armitage]

Iron in the blood is not ferromagnetic... just imagine people exploding during an MRI...

[crunchee]

This is all I know about EMF:   

Hopefully, your office/shop will get a clean bill of health from OSHA!

[DaveH]

On March 3, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Bloozguy said:

...an anonymous call to your local OSHA office might be in order.

At the minimum, move your office away from that location. There may also be some way of shielding the area to reduce the exposure.

I wouldn't do it anonymously, because from what you've told us here I think it would be pretty obvious where it came from. As an employer, that would piss me off. Have you discussed your concerns with your employer? Your little ghost meter is ultra sensitive, makes things seem worse than they are. An 800 lb xfmr probably equates out to 112kVA or so (just guessing), and the field from that is not going to extend far... I would be much more concerned with arc flash potentials than magnetic fields.

 

It sounds like they built this wrong. They should have built your office (bigger) as an electrical distribution room with all the panels and transformers inside.

[Steve Haynie]

Have some real fun.  Set up a Jacob's Ladder somewhere in your office with a hidden power cable.  Have a fake power cable coming out of the device so it looks like the Jacob's Ladder is unplugged.  If anyone asks how that thing works without being plugged in you will have one heck of a good conversation as you show off your office surroundings. 

[hamerhead]

I could call OSHA anonymously and ask questions, but yeah, the first thing I did was show the boss, so bringing them in would just make things very ugly.

The thing is, anywhere else in the shop I'd have to be within 12 inches or less before the meter would move much. In my office, the meter would peg anywhere I stood. Which (in a 10 foot room) is at least 5 feet away from the nearest box. I don't know a lot about all this (I'm learning, though), but from what I've witnessed, the field would have to be FAR stronger to elicit that type of reaction from this particular meter.

There's a place in Madison that will come out and take a gander. Tomorrow I'll ask if we can bring them in for a more accurate assessment. I just want to know what I may have been exposed to. If it's insignificant, at least I'll have that peace of mind. But I'm well aware of the potential shitstorm brewing, and will be treading very lightly as this unfolds.

I've already moved my office, but I'm still gonna wear the tinfoil hat. It's just too damn stylish.

[DaveH]

38 minutes ago, hamerhead said:

The thing is, anywhere else in the shop I'd have to be within 12 inches or less before the meter would move much. In my office, the meter would peg anywhere I stood. Which (in a 10 foot room) is at least 5 feet away from the nearest box.

Well, since that is the case then it could only mean one thing... Your office is haunted as hell! Stay out of there! Ghosts hate CNC, so you should be safe out on the floor.

 

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[hamerhead]

That's probably all it is - a previous owner did use the building to give himself high velocity lead poisoning.

(cue Twilight Zone music)

[hamerhead]

A little bit ago the 2 owners were in to my 'new' office, said they were going to have my old office checked out, and that one of them wants to move into it. I said, 'Good luck'.

I appreciated the tip, because if he doesn't move in after it's checked out I know my concern is legit. That is, IF they actually get it checked out......

[hamerhead]

Update:

After getting the typical BS ('we'll look into it', 'the electrician said it was fine') from the owners, I made some calls and bought a much more accurate digital milligauss guage. The previous 'ghost meter' was pinned at the max reading of 5 milligauss for a reason. The digital meter reads 40-50 mg where my desk used to sit and 160-170 mg a foot from the panel. As a comparison, to get a 40-50 mg reading at home I have to be 2 to 3 INCHES from the microwave.

I'll be going in for a checkup next week......

[cynic]

You should find a spider in that office and force it to bite you

[hamerhead]

Yeah - my wife already calls me 'Radioactive Man'.

[Studio Custom]

1 hour ago, hamerhead said:

Update:

After getting the typical BS ('we'll look into it', 'the electrician said it was fine') from the owners, I made some calls and bought a much more accurate digital milligauss guage. The previous 'ghost meter' was pinned at the max reading of 5 milligauss for a reason. The digital meter reads 40-50 mg where my desk used to sit and 160-170 mg a foot from the panel. As a comparison, to get a 40-50 mg reading at home I have to be 2 to 3 INCHES from the microwave.

I'll be going in for a checkup next week......

What is considered unsafe?  These issues usually take a while to manifest, it's not like burning your hand on the stove.  You might want to speak with a attorney about your record keeping for future use, and upgrade your life and medical insurance BEFORE you get diagnosed and any issues are then "pre-existing".  

[Ting Ho Dung]

Mine calls me Magic Mike. 

[mrjamiam]

 

[Silvertone Jockey]

I would be very concerned. I used to build and repair RF linear amplifiers (hundreds of them). The largest one I built was 8KW. I always had my hand in one unprotected while tuning them after repairs or construction and never thought a thing about it. Well now I have a lump on my hand that I am being treated for. Anyway according to the site linked below the safe exposure is....

RECOMMENDED EXPOSURE LIMIT OF AC MAGNETIC FIELDS: BELOW 200 NT (2.00 MG), PREFERABLY BELOW 20 NT (.20 MG) (AT 50/60 HZ).

Document everything just in case

http://www.best-emf-health.com/emf-emissions.html

[Silvertone Jockey]

Here is another interesting thing that happened to me that everyone should be concerned about. Last year I happened to notice this spot on my left thigh that looked like it was sun burned. I don't know how long it was there before I noticed it but it persisted for many months and just at that one spot on the front of my thigh. One day I was thinking about it and my cell rang so I reached into my left front pants pocket to answer it and then it hit me....the spot was exactly where my cell phone rests when its in my pocket. I quit carrying my phone there and the spot went away.

Think about this carefully and then google cell phone radiation hazard for more info.

Peace

[hamerhead]

Thanks for the info and the link - I wasn't paranoid enough already! Seriously though, I'll be getting deeper into this after my kid's wedding, which is coming up fast.

It's interesting the changes that have occurred since vacating that office. Occasional bouts with nasty heartburn and random IBS have ceased, headaches and chest pains (mostly due to the heartburn) nearly non-existent. The dizzyness/ near blackouts that sent me to the doctor several times (without being resolved) have stopped and I'm thinking more clearly (no - REALLY!).  My wife says I'm a lot less cranky after work now too, which really helps.

I didn't know any of these things were symptoms of exposure, so it's been a pretty big 'light bulb' moment for me. I really do feel the difference, both mentally and physically.

[scottcald]

Wow, hopefully that's all you needed.  But, don't wait to get it checked out.  

[killerteddybear]

On 8/11/2016 at 6:32 AM, hamerhead said:

Thanks for the info and the link - I wasn't paranoid enough already! Seriously though, I'll be getting deeper into this after my kid's wedding, which is coming up fast.

It's interesting the changes that have occurred since vacating that office. Occasional bouts with nasty heartburn and random IBS have ceased, headaches and chest pains (mostly due to the heartburn) nearly non-existent. The dizzyness/ near blackouts that sent me to the doctor several times (without being resolved) have stopped and I'm thinking more clearly (no - REALLY!).  My wife says I'm a lot less cranky after work now too, which really helps.

I didn't know any of these things were symptoms of exposure, so it's been a pretty big 'light bulb' moment for me. I really do feel the difference, both mentally and physically.

Did one of the owners end up moving into the old office?
You should let them know what you observed about your health changes.