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Well, it was fun....... but it's over.


BCR Greg

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Jobs changed the world, Fender changed music... regardless of the inevitable distortions, right or wrong, long from now they will be remembered for what they made and not how they made it... period. :D

Let's get one thing straight: Gates changed the world, Jobs followed a distant second for decades. It is the 20 and 30-somethings that are too young to remember this fact and have held Jobs up to the God-like status he currently holds (even posthumously).

It was Bill Gates' dream that everyone would have a computer in their homes at a time what this was simply ludicrous. This is what brought Internet into every home.

You can debate that Jobs improved on Gates' ideas, but that's not the point.

The reason we are all here discussing anything on a message board in the first place is because of Bill Gates.

Jobs stole the computer mouse from xerox in or around 1976. Apple and Jobs created Apple I and II by 1977 and built the first GUI based interface for a computer some years later in 1983. The lisa was a colossal failure.

Ibm create the first ibm computer in 1981 running ms-dos created by Bill Gates. By 1984 apple released the Macintosh with GUI and mouse. IBM added a mouse in 1987 and windows 3.0 shipped in 1990.

I would argue that Gates improved on Jobs ideas or at least incorporated them into Windows which really started the business use of computers. Many home user were buying atari's and comodores and such as well as apples and IBM's with Windows. Gates took it mainstream with Windows that really started the use of computers at home.

Jobs also revolutionized home computers with the iMac. A simple machine designed for home users.

http://www.computerhistory.org/timeline/?year=1976

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There were stripped down (albeit failures) "e-machines" long before the iMac. (For the record, I am typing this on an iMac, so I'm not anti-Apple).

At the risk of repeating myself (well, I'll do it anyway), Gates was the one who wanted to bring a PC into every home. The Xerox people laughed in his face and literally GAVE him the programming which would eventually become DOS, which begat Windows, and so on.

Jobs was an "also ran" for at least 20 years. It was the iPod (again, technology abandoned by SONY) that spurred interest in Apple to more of the mainstream. This brought up their computer sales enough so that more people could make the argument that the Mac is a superior product. Whether or not you feel that way is not the issue, but more people fall on that side of the argument than ever before.

So, my point (that most seem to be missing) is that the technology itself is not what drove society to where it is now. It is the man who brought it to us, and that man is Bill Gates. There is no denying this.

Xerox had the programming idea and thought it was a waste of time. Gates saw a way to bring it to everyone, which drove the Internet infrastructure and so on.

Jobs saw the Walkman and found a way to make it cool. His integration between the iPod and his computers is what drove up his market share.

So, again, without Gates, there is no Jobs.

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There were stripped down (albeit failures) "e-machines" long before the iMac. (For the record, I am typing this on an iMac, so I'm not anti-Apple).

At the risk of repeating myself (well, I'll do it anyway), Gates was the one who wanted to bring a PC into every home. The Xerox people laughed in his face and literally GAVE him the programming which would eventually become DOS, which begat Windows, and so on.

Jobs was an "also ran" for at least 20 years. It was the iPod (again, technology abandoned by SONY) that spurred interest in Apple to more of the mainstream. This brought up their computer sales enough so that more people could make the argument that the Mac is a superior product. Whether or not you feel that way is not the issue, but more people fall on that side of the argument than ever before.

So, my point (that most seem to be missing) is that the technology itself is not what drove society to where it is now. It is the man who brought it to us, and that man is Bill Gates. There is no denying this.

Xerox had the programming idea and thought it was a waste of time. Gates saw a way to bring it to everyone, which drove the Internet infrastructure and so on.

Jobs saw the Walkman and found a way to make it cool. His integration between the iPod and his computers is what drove up his market share.

So, again, without Gates, there is no Jobs.

Period!

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There were stripped down (albeit failures) "e-machines" long before the iMac. (For the record, I am typing this on an iMac, so I'm not anti-Apple).

At the risk of repeating myself (well, I'll do it anyway), Gates was the one who wanted to bring a PC into every home. The Xerox people laughed in his face and literally GAVE him the programming which would eventually become DOS, which begat Windows, and so on.

Jobs was an "also ran" for at least 20 years. It was the iPod (again, technology abandoned by SONY) that spurred interest in Apple to more of the mainstream. This brought up their computer sales enough so that more people could make the argument that the Mac is a superior product. Whether or not you feel that way is not the issue, but more people fall on that side of the argument than ever before.

So, my point (that most seem to be missing) is that the technology itself is not what drove society to where it is now. It is the man who brought it to us, and that man is Bill Gates. There is no denying this.

Xerox had the programming idea and thought it was a waste of time. Gates saw a way to bring it to everyone, which drove the Internet infrastructure and so on.

Jobs saw the Walkman and found a way to make it cool. His integration between the iPod and his computers is what drove up his market share.

So, again, without Gates, there is no Jobs.

Apple has a long history of making very innovative, very “cool” products along with an equally long history of turning their backs on the majority of the business community.

In the mid-eighties I began working for a company that manufactured precision measuring equipment. Most of our competition used DEC or HP hardware and very cryptic, command based software. We had an intuitive, easy to use software product that ran on the Apple II and IIe and it sold like wildfire.

We were pretty excited when Apple introduced the Macintosh until we discovered that, unlike the Apple II and IIe, the Macintosh was a “closed” system with which we could not interface our hardware. They even went so far as to contractually prevent Torx, the manufacturer of the screws which held the Macintosh case together, from selling a driver long enough to reach the case screws. A couple of cuts and a couple of welds and we had a driver long enough to get us in there…only to find out that there was no way we would be able to interface with the Mac hardware.

We ported our software to the PC and never looked back.

Even when the more open Macs of the late 80’s and early 90’s were introduced our customer base was not interested.

When my 28-year-old son was in elementary school there were no computers other than Macs in any of his classrooms. By the time he finished high school at least half of the computers were Windows PCs. When my 20-year-old daughter was in high school every computer was a Windows PC other than perhaps a few in the art department.

When I asked why (a question to which I already knew the answer), I was told that the Windows machines were there because that was what students would move on to when they entered the workforce.

I have no idea why Apple chose the direction they did.

It is not likely that I will ever buy any sort of Macintosh because a) they will not run much of the software that I use; and B) they are ferociously expensive for what they do. I am not thrilled with my iPhone and especially not happy with the way it interfaces to my Windows PC. My next phone will probably be a Blackberry 10. I am not in love with iTunes but I am in love with my iPod and I hope it lives forever!

But overall I still love Apple!

Why?

Because their innovation has forced software developers, particularly Windows software developers, to work really hard at putting out a product that was elegant, functional and intuitive. Without Apple, Windows would probably still be the piece of crap that it was back in the 3.11 days!

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I... just... can't... help.... myself...

from computer history website cited above... the year 1990...

" Microsoft released Windows amid a $10 million publicity blitz.... ...As a result, PCs moved toward the user-friendly concepts of the Macintosh, making IBM and IBM-compatible computers more popular. "

from the Wikipedia page I cited:

" Beginning in 1979, started by Steve Jobs and led by Jef Raskin, the Apple Lisa and Macintosh teams at Apple Computer (which included former members of the Xerox PARC group) continued to develop such ideas. The Macintosh, released in 1984, was the first commercially successful product to use a multi-panel window GUI. "

Steve Jobs Time Magazine cover 1982

Bill Gates Time Magazine cover 1984

sorry, Gates does not begat Jobs, he took an idea and made it more available, no doubt.

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Steve Jobs actually sprung fully formed from my head, whereas Gates was created after I took the form of a bull in order to bang Charles Babbage's great niece.

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To give full credit to LucSulla, Charles Babbage's great niece is quite a hottie...

Period.

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@ robbie that what I intended to say but you said it well.

They are both responsible. Jobs had many of the ideas first, But Gates had the MUCH better execution of the ideas. We wouldn't be where we are without both of them.

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Jobs changed the world, Fender changed music... regardless of the inevitable distortions, right or wrong, long from now they will be remembered for what they made and not how they made it... period. :D

Let's get one thing straight: Gates changed the world, Jobs followed a distant second for decades. It is the 20 and 30-somethings that are too young to remember this fact and have held Jobs up to the God-like status he currently holds (even posthumously).

It was Bill Gates' dream that everyone would have a computer in their homes at a time what this was simply ludicrous. This is what brought Internet into every home.

You can debate that Jobs improved on Gates' ideas, but that's not the point.

The reason we are all here discussing anything on a message board in the first place is because of Bill Gates.

Jobs stole the computer mouse from xerox in or around 1976. Apple and Jobs created Apple I and II by 1977 and built the first GUI based interface for a computer some years later in 1983. The lisa was a colossal failure.

Lisa failed in the marketplace, not because people didn't want it, but because it cost $10K. But it showed the way, and a year later the affordable Macintosh came out with a similar mouse-driven GUI. The Macintosh set the standard for GUI-based PCs for the rest of the '80s. One reason for this is that Apples were always based on graphics-friendly CPUs and were pretty responsive, while the Intel MPUs of the PCs and clones were largely designed with character-based interfaces in mind. Microsoft had been trying to crack the GUI market with Windows going back to the mid '80s, but the 80286 just barely had the horsepower to do it. It wasn't until the introduction of 80386-based MPUs and Windows 3.0 (and really, 3.1 and 3.11) before Windows as an OS really took off in the early '90s. Before that the PC hardware wasn't up to it. They also made a very bold move during this period when IBM recruited them to help create an official IBM-sanctioned GUI OS called OS/2. After futzing with it for awhile, MS had the balls to walk away from IBM to go their own way and create Windows instead.

"IBM created the first [iBM PC] computer in 1981 running ms-dos created by Bill Gates."

The DOS that became MS-DOS was created by Seattle Computer Products. Microsoft bought the rights to SCP's DOS operating system and ported it to the IBM PC just prior to the launch of the IBM PC. Before this very strategic move, Microsoft was mostly a maker of programming language compilers--BASIC, Fortran, COBOL, and Pascal. They had also created a version of Unix for the current crop of 8080/Z80 computers called Xenix, but the introduction of the IBM PC completely changed the market. At that time the major players in the 8080/Z80-based personal computers were MicroPro, makers of WordStar word processor, Software Arts' VisiCalc, a spreadsheet, and Digital Research (DR), makers of C/PM and M/PM, the overwhelmingly dominant operating system of the 8-bit personal computers. When the IBM PC came out, several operating systems were available for it. DR cut their own throats by charging over $200 for their C/PM-86 OS, while PC-DOS, whose interface and command set were very similar to C/PM, was only about $25. With that aggressive pricing, Microsoft gave up short-term profits for long-term market share. It was a brilliant move, but as with many of Microsoft's brilliant moves, it was more about leverage than innovation.

http://www.thocp.net/companies/microsoft/microsoft%5Fcompany.htm

The next phase was the DOS era from 1981 to roughly 1991. During this time Microsoft expanded mightily thanks to being the 95+% OS of choice on all PCs and clones. But when it came to applications, other companies dominated: WordPerfect superseded WordStar in word processing (MS Word was available but the big WP players were Word Perfect and MultiMate), Lotus 1-2-3 superseded VisiCalc for spreadsheets, and Ashton-Tate dominated databases with DB III and variants.
Once Windows really took off in the '90s, Microsoft once again leveraged its position to undercut the competition via bundling with the creation of Microsoft Office. Whereas Word Perfect was around $250 and so was Lotus 1-2-3, Microsoft bundled Word, Excel Spreadsheet, and PowerPoint for around $200-250 total. It was THIS move that presented a no-brainer to corporate accounts, and MS strengthened their position over the years by bundling more things with Office. Pretty soon Word Perfect and Lotus 1-2-3 were irrelevant in the Windows world. They tried to partner up to offer their own bundle, but it was too little, too late.
Again, this was a brilliant move, but it was more about bundling and leverage than innovation, though I gotta admit I was quite smitten by Word 2.0 for Windows 3.1. The novelty wore off for me over time as the initial bugs and limitations persisted through several major releases, but that's another story.
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Some years ago I heard a Jobs bio audio book. There in saying it was Jobs who actually had the contract for the IBM PC with the Next OS before Gates came into play with DOS. It had been a management move that finally made DOS the formal OS for the PC. Jobs got payed and went his way.

We could have saved a lot of time and hassle though.

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I know Cracker Barrel and The Cheesecake Factory have a slightly different demographic, but i like the gift shop at Cracker Barrel. They sometimes have Zagnut bars.

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sorry, Gates does not begat Jobs, he took an idea and made it more available, no doubt.

Sorry sorry, but you made my point.

Gates knew how to make it available to everyone, while Jobs kept his software and hardware proprietary,

Gates > Jobs.

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Gates > Jobs.

Nu-UHHH!

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WOW!!! This thread is about to surpass the boobies thread in # of pages! And that's w/o all those pics. Jeepers Wally!!!

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Boobies you want? Gates vs Jobs? Or maybe Paul Allen vs Steve Ballmer?

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WOW!!! This thread is about to surpass the boobies thread in # of pages! And that's w/o all those pics. Jeepers Wally!!!

We certainly need more boobs then.

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WOW!!! This thread is about to surpass the boobies thread in # of pages! And that's w/o all those pics. Jeepers Wally!!!

Well, 41 pages isn't exactly 104, but it took the Boobies thread almost two years to get to page 41. This thread is only 3 months old (to the day!).

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WOW!!! This thread is about to surpass the boobies thread in # of pages! And that's w/o all those pics. Jeepers Wally!!!

Well, 41 pages isn't exactly 104, but it took the Boobies thread almost two years to get to page 41. This thread is only 3 months old (to the day!).

Really, Caddie... What were you thinking?

Hang your head.

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WOW!!! This thread is about to surpass the boobies thread in # of pages! And that's w/o all those pics. Jeepers Wally!!!

Well, 41 pages isn't exactly 104, but it took the Boobies thread almost two years to get to page 41. This thread is only 3 months old (to the day!).

Really, Caddie... What were you thinking?

Hang your head.

:D

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WOW!!! This thread is about to surpass the boobies thread in # of pages! And that's w/o all those pics. Jeepers Wally!!!

Well, 41 pages isn't exactly 104, but it took the Boobies thread almost two years to get to page 41. This thread is only 3 months old (to the day!).

Really, Caddie... What were you thinking?

Hang your head.

:D

Hey caddie,

Your scorecard has a bunch of 3s & 4s on it. So how did you do THAT while losing 5 golf balls?

Uhhhh... yeah. I got the next round of beers guys.

Cheers

caddie

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