BTMN Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 http://www.americansongwriter.com/2014/05/cordoba-music-group-buy-guild-fender/Now to find a good owner to take the Hamer name from FMIC and return it to a state of goodness.
coolfeel Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 I wonder if those "related assets" include the Hamer tooling?
cmatthes Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 The Hamer tooling has already been packed off to Scottsdale.
G Man Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 The Hamer tooling has already been packed off to Scottsdale.The Hamer tooling has already been packed off to Scottsdale.What's in Scottsdale?
hamerhead Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 ....along with the Echoplex..........plex...........plex.........plex.......
Never2Late Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 The Hamer tooling has already been packed off to Scottsdale.The Hamer tooling has already been packed off to Scottsdale.What's in Scottsdale?I'm thinking one of the large Auction Houses?
rj2858 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 The Hamer tooling has already been packed off to Scottsdale.The Hamer tooling has already been packed off to Scottsdale.What's in Scottsdale?I'm thinking one of the large Auction Houses?Fender HQ, and an ex girlfriend of mine.Probably not related to the ex girlfriend.
Biz Prof Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 Cordoba Music Group....Hmmm.... perhaps they will start shipping Guild guitars in cases covered in soft, Corinthian leather.http://youtu.be/HVELhUyLZGk
mirrorimij Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I believe the new owner's president is the son of former FMIC CEO Larry Thomas.
velorush Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I believe the new owner's president is the son of former FMIC CEO Larry Thomas. Oh, that seems perfectly arms-length [/sarcasm]
Guest gearwhore Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 http://www.americansongwriter.com/2014/05/cordoba-music-group-buy-guild-fender/ Now to find a good owner to take the Hamer name from FMIC and return it to a state of goodness. what would something like that cost?...like real life real money. does anyone have the insight to that? thousands?millions?...if its dead doesn't that make it essentially worthless other wise they would have sold it then close it. I would be genuinely interested in a number.
Punkavenger Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 Yes, I'm I believe the new owner's president is the son of former FMIC CEO Larry Thomas. Oh, that seems perfectly arms-length [/sarcasm] Yes, I'm sure everything will be fine
Toadroller Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 http://www.americansongwriter.com/2014/05/cordoba-music-group-buy-guild-fender/ Now to find a good owner to take the Hamer name from FMIC and return it to a state of goodness. what would something like that cost?...like real life real money. does anyone have the insight to that? thousands?millions?...if its dead doesn't that make it essentially worthless other wise they would have sold it then close it. I would be genuinely interested in a number. Well, thinking out loud,* you can't take a classical valuation approach of a five year ROI, meaning pay 5x a typical year's profits. Hamer was not a constant, steady source of income. It was a decliner. I feel that it's a brand equity, long term value guess. What is the value of reviving the brand for nostalgia's sake in the medium to long term (5 -10 years) future? What is the value of comparable brands? Now we're into comps. What is the value of a brand in the guitar marketplace today? Which brand presence: Hamer, the hand-crafted, or Hammer, the misunderstood import line? If the former, is it to the hundreds of fans (HFC) of whom a small percentage (a reasonable guestimate) would be willing to shell out for nostalgia and the working-man's quality hand-built guitar, or the latter, the entry-level guitar buyers looking for something better (or with more cachet) than GFS's Xaviere line? My guess? The brand is worth tens of thousands to low hundreds of thousands. 80k to 400k. It's a difficult, changing time for the guitar industry. Hamers are a hand-crafted, analog device in a time of mass, automated, outsourced, quality manufacturing. In a technology world gone digital yet selling analog tubes for vintage feel yet I've got this iPad and $10 worth of Garage Band which lets me multi-track record and edit. And the same for its purposed market, the music industry, which is also undergoing its changes. But, ultimately, it is worth what a buyer will pay for a brand and what a seller (FMIC) will let it go for. And once it is let go, it is up to the capitalist, willing to risk their capital, to make something of it. Or fail, losing their money (as is their right), and leaving the brand, diluted, to the next risk-taker. I didn't follow the link, but I am curious what Guild was transferred for. On a similar note, my bicycle is a USA, hand-made Cannondale; they've been through the same in roughly the same time-frame: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannondale#History How does one play a brand? Hand made, USA, small-group triiibe (tip of the hat to Seth Godin), or Schwinn at Target? Both can work. Neither and both can take you down and lead a resurgence. See Philips and Apple, both of whom could be playing the other side of the fence right now. Bugatti? Chrysler-Maserati? *that's my CYA out that you can't hold me to shit, also known as "he's had more than one Bombay martini, just let him ramble."
django49 Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 Same old issue. You gotta have the product, you gotta have the marketing and you have to have the customers who will pay up. Reignite the same discussion.......How many of us here that would love to see a new "Hamer" are actually candidates for a new Custom Order starting at $4k or more? How many of us only semi-jokingly are "tree fiddy" guys? Or at least happy with buying VERY NICE used Hamers for $700-$1500? If a person plops down $5k for a new CO (Did I not hear Jol's COs start in the mid $5k range?), what will it be worth a week after delivery? Real world example.....I have a Huber Dolphin bought used for low $3k range. The guitar that was apparently the inspiration for the Tally Pro. I have a great Tally Pro that I bought (new) for closer to $4k. List was closer to $6k. To get it from Jol these days would apparently be in that ($6k) range. Love it. It is spectacular. I am NOT going to sell it for $2k, but...... The Huber is much better. (Yes, I know....The Dolphin would be more like $7k or more for an equivalent new one today). On the other side, Is there a market for $1000 guitars given some very nice ones from overseas for (street) way under $1k? You gotta sell a lot of SOMETHING to cover the overhead. So, Hamer failed in trying to go really upscale. Can they make a mass market product that is a good business model? In a world saturated with high quality instruments and a younger generation that MAY not care? I would like to think it possible. I know the idea was floated over the past year or three. Some, including me, like the romantic idea of a resurrection. I have yet to see anything (yes, I fall back on my MBA attitude) that resembles a business plan I would actually invest in. So, the practical side overrules. Still I hold out hope of Hamer coming back. I would also like to win the lottery. At least Hamer has better odds.
Boomerang~Junkie Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 May be tough for some to read and absorb - but Django nailed it ^ here ^. This dead horse has been beaten into paste.
bcsride Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I'm glad Guild got bought. My intuitive sense is that Guild had brand value. We'll see about the quality, value, marketing, distribution, and etc. of the new Guild brings.
veatch Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I don't think the name matters at this point. At least not to me. Unless they can bring the team back together. I've said it before - it's not the name on the headstock, it's the people building the guitars, selecting the wood, doing the setup, etc.
django49 Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 ^^^^WOULD be nice if the people landed in a good place-----Together.
JohnnyB Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 It's about business models, economy of scale relative to the business model, etc. Example, at the height of the comeback of vinyl records, Panasonic discontinued production of their SL12x0 direct drive turntable line. Why would they do this when Rega, Music Hall, Pro-ject, and others continue to expand their lines and make money, when more and more new album releases are coming out on vinyl?Because the Technics turntable was only viable as long as Panasonic could make many thousands of them per year. And they had done so for a very long time. The original version came out in 1972, and continued as the Mk II version until 2010. It's the best-selling turntable of all time at over 3 million units sold. But eventually market conditions changed, and without that high economy of scale, the Technics SL12x0 series was no longer viable. Why put millions of dollars into upgrading a $500-1000 turntable that requires microscopic machining tolerances when they can stamp out millions of $89 Blu-ray players?Likewise, Guild has always been a bit problematic, a premium also-ran, a guitarist's guitar, but without the name brand recognition of Gibson, Martin, Ovation (for awhile), and Taylor. For it to work with Fender as owner, it probably needs to hit sales numbers it just can't hit. But for the new owner, it may be a real feather in its cap, a real boost in name brand recognition. Whereas, to Fender, Guild is just another semi-premium brand name, for the new owner it could be the flagship. something they lavish attention and marketing on. If it pays off, Guild survives. If not, it's passed onto the next idealistic sucker prospect.Guild guitars are something like old MG and Triumph sports cars--those who want them want them really bad, but there aren't that many of those people. And let's not forget that pop music's focus has drifted from guitar-based rock to pop-synth diva pop and rap/hip-hop. The guitar just doesn't occupy the same position of prominence it once did, and in a shrinking market there's room for only so many players. Even less encouraging, Guild's heyday harkens back to the transition from hootenanny/folk to folk rock, which is about 50 years ago. Guid may have a better shot with the new owners, though it was never a strong contender.
mirrorimij Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I wish that Frank U could get Chris Martin to buy the rights to Hamer (not even sure FMIC is selling). I bet Frank could get enough of the old crew back together to make it work.
LostArt Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 don't you think if they could have sold Hamer they would have done so already?IMHO there are no real buyers out there.same for ovation. if they could have sold it they would .
Never2Late Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 don't you think if they could have sold Hamer they would have done so already?IMHO there are no real buyers out there.same for ovation. if they could have sold it they would .I don't recall anyone asking/offering.....If Hamer were for-sale, I'd want access to the shop materials, wood-tooling and personnel, not just a pile of legal paperwork for my $500K. If the Hamer shop is headed to Fender's headquarters, then they have plans to build something.
bcsride Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I wish that Frank U could get Chris Martin to buy the rights to Hamer (not even sure FMIC is selling). I bet Frank could get enough of the old crew back together to make it work.And with that, the HFC collectively started jotting down CO ideas, earmarking non-Hamer items for sale to raise cash, and generally going back into denial about the current reality.
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