The ol' Seymour Duncan JB and '59 combination

[polara]

I'm really diggin' the $1000 Artist mahogany I got off Facebook Marketplace. Chunky neck + semi-hollow + the controls in the places I'm used to (got serious about 'lectric guitar on a Hamer so it feels like "home") = happy. Plus it stays in tune like a champ, and the neck is laser-straight.

On the topic of what I'm used to, it seems for a long time Hamer claimed to carefully match guitars to the right pickups... but somehow that best match always seemed to be a JB in the bridge position and a '59 in the neck. This combo is usually thought of as... well, not great, with most of the stones cast at the JB. I've had them in a Special FM, a Studio, and an Artist, as well as in my Framus semihollow, and while the JB seemed a bit harsh on the solidbodies, on both the guitars that have some air in them, they're terrific.

This Artist, all mahogany and semihollow, sounds sensational. Edge of feedback, chimey, lively. And none of the "dead spot" from the 10th to 14th fret Terry McInturff warns about. What applications have you found where this pickup combo shines? And when is it just not working for you? When it doesn't work, what do folks generally turn to as a substitute?

[Travis]

I’ve never liked the JB and I’ve tried it many times over the years in several different guitars. On my Miarge II I had Josh @JGravelin rewind the JB/59 into something spectacular. A 10k hot PAF n the bridge and an AlNiCo 4 into the neck pickup. Sounds amazing. On my Mirage Maple top I just yanked the JB/59, sold them, and replaced them with a couple more Gravelins. A 12k hot PAF with asymmetrical coils and a 7.7k PAF style in the neck. 

[JGale]

My first Hamer was a 25th, and was my ticket to the Asylum Dat'R us. It came so afflicted and I whored around with the usual suspects, mostly DiMarzio before ending up with Fralin Unbuckers. I always thought of the 25th as a poor man's 33-something, so I chased clean and serene vice clean and mean. I musta been unhappy since I sold it to pay for a Dolphin from BCR.

Fast forward many Yarin and I finally have another 25th, courtesy SteveE9C6. Same unease with the Duncan's, so I sent it JeffRo and basically let him have his way with it. He swears it's just his standard A2, but I sometimes hear whispers of Cajun spirits in the background. Clean, sweet and spicy when needed.

No point to make. Those guitars are very expressive (hint, hint FaberUSA), but not screamers. I vote for the low road.

 

[veatch]

I typically thought the JB/59 pair was reasonably good in a lot of guitars, but then I always came up with better pairings. : )  

Like Travis, at this point, the Gravelins are my go-to. I've been through a *lot* of pickups, and found good uses for most of them. I had a couple of MJ wound pairs of JB/59 that had a little something about them, including a double cream pair.  We all know double creams sound better, especially in blue guitars. (before anyonee goes all "TGP", that's a joke : )  MJ is not a joke. She has skills)

I've never owned a 25th, but I would likely stay in the PAF range. Whether underwound to bring out sound of the guitar,  or slightly overwound to give it a bit of "beef", I dunno. I would try both and go from there. 

Congrats again on the guitar. Hell of a deal!

[Jeff R]

If you like the JB (as I do) and want to pick from different very similar offerings within Duncan's lineup, you may want to try Custom 5 (slightly underwound compared to JB and a little scoopier) and Nazgul, which is still slightly more underwound and shockingly tasteful for a ceramic drivetrain). Both of those would work killer with the extra throat an all mahogany semi-hollow generates.

You may also try a different JB, specifically ... an older one ...

Article on six different Duncan JB eras

 

 

[JGravelin]

Neither the Custom 5 or the Nazgul are "underwound" versions of the JB and in fact the turn-counts are practically identical, with the Nazgul minus approximately 3% on the coils if we are to believe the provided Duncan specs, measured at 69 degrees F. Why 69F? Because that's the industry standard measurement temperature neutral for resistance with any coil wire.

Both of the aforementioned pickups use 43 AWG (American Wire Gauge measurement) wire with SPN (Single Poly Nylon) insulation coating in the standard Shop Floor models, and either SPN or PE (Plain Enamel) in the Custom Shop versions and handwound variants depending on the model option. The JB, for all time in any variation, has used 44 AWG; SPN with the Shop Floor models and PE with the Custom Shop variants.

Same turn count, different wire.

Also, the bridge pickup in Jeff Becks Tele-Gib: while it uses 44, it's not the same stuff that SD used in any of the production models. Different magnets in both neck and bridge too. If it weren't for Google crawler bots and other reasons, I'd tell you how I figured this out.

 

 

 

 

 

[Disturber]

I had a Duncan Distortion / 59 combo in my Special. I turned the Distortion into a JB2 with a mag swap. It was a great combo. But this guitar likes the APH2 II pro's I put in recently better.
(It was actually the 59 neck that did not sound to my liking and made swap pups. Usually I love the 59 in the neck, but it did not work in this guitar. It needed an A2 mag).

I also have a JB bridge / Custom neck in my SuperPro, and that is a killer combo for that guitar. Just right!

[Jim85IROC]

the best sounding JBs I've heard have been in semi hollows.  I had an Ibanez AM-83 or something like that with a bigsby and the JB in the bridge sounded fantastic for off-clean and light blues-dad types of overdrive.  My instructor has a D'Angelico Mini DC with the JB/Jazz combo and his is the same way.  Such a great sounding bridge pickup in a semi hollow.

[diablo175]

20 hours ago, polara said:

I'm really diggin' the $1000 Artist mahogany I got off Facebook Marketplace. Chunky neck + semi-hollow + the controls in the places I'm used to (got serious about 'lectric guitar on a Hamer so it feels like "home") = happy. Plus it stays in tune like a champ, and the neck is laser-straight.

On the topic of what I'm used to, it seems for a long time Hamer claimed to carefully match guitars to the right pickups... but somehow that best match always seemed to be a JB in the bridge position and a '59 in the neck. This combo is usually thought of as... well, not great, with most of the stones cast at the JB. I've had them in a Special FM, a Studio, and an Artist, as well as in my Framus semihollow, and while the JB seemed a bit harsh on the solidbodies, on both the guitars that have some air in them, they're terrific.

This Artist, all mahogany and semihollow, sounds sensational. Edge of feedback, chimey, lively. And none of the "dead spot" from the 10th to 14th fret Terry McInturff warns about. What applications have you found where this pickup combo shines? And when is it just not working for you? When it doesn't work, what do folks generally turn to as a substitute?

Like most issues on here, this is highly subjective and subject to personal preferences. One person's pissed off hornets nest of tone is another person's sweet as honey tone.

That said, I'm not surprised that others have posted about having hit or miss experiences with the vaunted JB/'59 combo. Such has been my experience as well. I was delighted when my breathtakingly expensive and slow to deliver Charvel Custom Shop DK24 arrived with a very well-suited TB JB in the bridge. F-ing phenomenal! But numerous past experiences with the temperamental suitability of the JB taught me to forgo rushing out to install a few in my HEL DK-esque Spitfires. 

For those 2 Spitfires- (one alder, the other 'hog) a couple of variations of the Gravelin Mongoose give them superb voice, clarity, punch and responsiveness. But that's subjective

[Jeff R]

12 hours ago, JGravelin said:

Neither the Custom 5 or the Nazgul are "underwound" versions of the JB and in fact the turn-counts are practically identical, with the Nazgul minus approximately 3% on the coils if we are to believe the provided Duncan specs, measured at 69 degrees F. Why 69F? Because that's the industry standard measurement temperature neutral for resistance with any coil wire.

Both of the aforementioned pickups use 43 AWG (American Wire Gauge measurement) wire with SPN (Single Poly Nylon) insulation coating in the standard Shop Floor models, and either SPN or PE (Plain Enamel) in the Custom Shop versions and handwound variants depending on the model option. The JB, for all time in any variation, has used 44 AWG; SPN with the Shop Floor models and PE with the Custom Shop variants.

Same turn count, different wire.

Also, the bridge pickup in Jeff Becks Tele-Gib: while it uses 44, it's not the same stuff that SD used in any of the production models. Different magnets in both neck and bridge too. If it weren't for Google crawler bots and other reasons, I'd tell you how I figured this out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the correction, Josh. My use of "underwound" was meant to be more of a general tone description most of this forum's participants could and would understand, kind of like when I said "different very similar offerings" and "scoopier."  I was totally wrong to use the word "underwound" as it is misleading to the board's many technically-savvy purists, and I will keep my original post unedited so your reply maintains all relevance as it sets the record straight.

[JGale]

1 hour ago, diablo175 said:

For those 2 Spitfires- (one alder, the other 'hog) a couple of variations of the Gravelin Mongoose give them superb voice, clarity, punch and responsiveness. But that's subjective

I have to agree with that last statement. My PAC812V came with a JB and two SSL-1s. I will admit to not spending a lot of time with the JB given my previous experiences. I swapped in the Yamaha Music Endorsee's recommended replacement Screamin' Demon which was okay, in HB mode it works okay, sorta like a very hot single coil, but split it's anemic. The MongooseT in there now splits nicely, I'm assuming it is wound asymmetrically, unlike the JB? Sounds very much more like a hot single coil, plus you get the flamethrower back at the flick of a switch.

 

[geoff_hartwell]

I have enjoyed the JB/59 in several 3-hole Duotones. Some with covers, some without. That definitely has EQ differences, but lots of good stuff to work with in both cases. 👍

[scottcald]

I like it for some things, I also like the dual 59 set as well.  Balances between them well.  

[JGravelin]

4 hours ago, JGale said:

The MongooseT in there now splits nicely, I'm assuming it is wound asymmetrically, unlike the JB? Sounds very much more like a hot single coil, plus you get the flamethrower back at the flick of a switch.

 

Excellent feedback and exactly right. Thanks Mr Jim!

Asymmetric winding can happen in all sorts of different ways: slightly different diameter wire and the insulation coating, turn-count, tension on the wire, increasing or decreasing the internal coil wind area, and other. "The world will never know."

[Dutchman]

Personally I don't like any of the Duncan pup's except the signature pup's. They sound lifeless to me. These are just the pulls from my Hamers. I guess I got spoiled by old Gibson T tops and PAF's, the real ones. Even they had turds in some of the Gibson Guitars I owned thru the years. 

Being old just means I got to play the vintage stuff when it was brand new....

[JGravelin]

Hamer 'hog Artist is a sweet machine 100%. I wish I had one! Rock and roller with this guit: raw, will smash you with mids, and I can totally understand how a JB bridge wouldn't work here on a number of technical levels: specifically, the massive mid-hump that comes with 44 SPN and modern production. That said, if one is willing to tweak their amp hard I know you'll probably most likely find some glory tones with it.

I love JBs - so much so that I did the ultimate deep dive into them and the origin and basis of the original one. The modern production versions do a "thing" that is mostly pretty good! Is it for eveyone, for every amp, for every circumstance? No. That said, you are lucky to have a huge array potential replacement options available to you and this 'hog Artist is such a killer guitar no matter what.

Great score! I am envious!

[JGale]

17 hours ago, Dutchman said:

Being old just means I got to play the vintage stuff when it was brand new....

True. I feel the same way about my Johnson ..

 

.. fishing reels! You perverts!

[bry4321]

18 hours ago, Dutchman said:

Personally I don't like any of the Duncan pup's except the signature pup's. They sound lifeless to me. These are just the pulls from my Hamers. I guess I got spoiled by old Gibson T tops and PAF's, the real ones. Even they had turds in some of the Gibson Guitars I owned thru the years. 

Being old just means I got to play the vintage stuff when it was brand new....

Some things are classic, some things are just old.

 

[Dave Scepter]

I personally love the JB... it does everything for me,

Especially the older ones 🤘

[RobB]

If pickup heights/pole pieces are adjusted and balanced, this archetypal pickup set sounds great. I learned a lot from the brief tutorial on Fralins website. 

[polara]

9 hours ago, RobB said:

If pickup heights/pole pieces are adjusted and balanced, this archetypal pickup set sounds great. I learned a lot from the brief tutorial on Fralins website. 

If I set the JB in the bridge of the Hoginny Artist a little lower, it works well. In a perfect world I suppose I'd experiment some, but I think my time is better spent writing better songs instead of swapping pickups to get some mythical tone that changes depending on the last music I heard.

[JGravelin]

13 hours ago, polara said:

If I set the JB in the bridge of the Hoginny Artist a little lower, it works well. In a perfect world I suppose I'd experiment some, but I think my time is better spent writing better songs instead of swapping pickups to get some mythical tone that changes depending on the last music I heard.

Pickup height and pole screw heights can really do a LOT. I've stressed this point with customers for years and years and all I get is "blah I don't think about that, can't be bothered, etc. ". There are serious and noticeable gains to be had here and I encourage all players to f around and find out! It's worth it.

[Disturber]

10 hours ago, JGravelin said:

Pickup height and pole screw heights can really do a LOT. I've stressed this point with customers for years and years and all I get is "blah I don't think about that, can't be bothered, etc. ". There are serious and noticeable gains to be had here and I encourage all players to f around and find out! It's worth it.

For the old creme and zebra OEM Hamer Dimarzio's that are un-potted it can take weeks to dial them in right. Pickup height, pole screw adjustement. When you get them right, they are un-beatable. Same with the older 57 Classic's. Great pickups, but a hazzle do dial in right.

[Cboss]

Is there a way to do this technically, on an oscilloscope or a computer? Or is it strictly a by ear trial and error process?

[RobB]

1 hour ago, Cboss said:

Is there a way to do this technically, on an oscilloscope or a computer? Or is it strictly a by ear trial and error process?

Pickup Height

String/Polepiece Balance

I wasn't digging the '57 Classics in my '15 V until I futzed with them as per the above. Disturber is correct. Make sure to use a very clean sound, no reverb, pedals or any other nonsense.