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So, time to write Hamer's obituary?


zorrow

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I guess the time to do so is getting closer and closer... :P

Any version in mind already, or we just wait a little?

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I guess the time to do so is getting closer and closer... :P

Any version in mind already, or we just wait a little?

Huh? Is Hamer likely to stop production on any new guitars?

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it ain't over till Jol sings

EXACTLY.

Anyone other than that is just shooting blanks.

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Not quite, ladies.

Hamer is not making STOCK instruments at this point. They are still making CUSTOM ORDER instruments.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

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Not quite, ladies.

Hamer is not making STOCK instruments at this point. They are still making CUSTOM ORDER instruments.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Not knowing much about the biz, I'll still ask, can a company stay solvent, or even flourish, as a custom order only operation?

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I guess it would help us understand what to expect or Hamers Vision for the future. It would eleminate speculation. Like, Can you can custom order anything? Or can you custom order the Base Models just like we have been doing for years? I love hamers but I have to say as many as i've owned I have never contributed to their bottom line. If they go away I will always wish I did. I love their guitars from all the era's they are just great instruments.

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it ain't over till Jol sings

EXACTLY.

Anyone other than that is just shooting blanks.

It seems strange that Jol would have the big internet push for the custom shop aspect over the last year, and continuing, if Hamer were going to cease operations. Why keep pushing something that's "dead in the water?" If anything, Jol and Hamer's custom guitars have been more visible lately.

I thought I heard that some of the Ovation space was being dedicated to building Guild brand guitars. Perhaps Guild electrics will be built on the Hamer side if there's capacity.

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well... Hamer is owned by... Kaman music? And they got bought out by FMI, which in the past has done a great job of buying up and then ruining brands. Jackson was bought up and pretty much everything but the custom shop and the high end USA models was shipped overseas. Guild was virtually gutted and turned into an acoustic-only company, probably to avoid competition with Gretsch, which was allowed to stay pretty much like it wanted, and even expanded.

It would be very sad to see Hamer go the way of Guild, stripped down to avoid cross competition, but unfortunately that's the way it goes. Bushmills whiskey was under produced and put to the wayside because it was owned by the same company that made Jameson, which they wanted to sell more of. Bushmills also made an Irish cream. However, then another company bought Bushmills, with the intention of returning it to its former glory. However, because said company also owns Baileys, Bushmills Irish cream was cut.

Anyway, I have two hamer guitars from 1993, and they rock, and it would be sad to see Hamer get gutted, now that it finally is back to how it used to be "in the old days"

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it ain't over till Jol sings

When did Jol become the controlling shareholder? Isn't he just a paid exec, at this point. Mind you, not an unenviable position - - he draws a check and does his thing. While probablyworrying about the staff and all the mouths they feed. In any other economy, he would probably be looking for the dough to buy out the business - - if he believes in it. Or the equipment if he wants to become his own master again. Just sayin'.

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I'm anxious to see a Guild thats out of the Kaman factory. Are they out now? I haven't seen anything though I have heard this also. Is is all Acoustics?

They ARE out now. I own a '91 (Westerly) Guild that I'll never part with, but the new ones I've played have blown me away. Really good stuff.

As far as Guild doing electrics, not at the present time, although that may change someday too. I could see some of their more popular models, like the Bluesbird, coming back.

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well... Hamer is owned by... Kaman music? And they got bought out by FMI, which in the past has done a great job of buying up and then ruining brands. Jackson was bought up and pretty much everything but the custom shop and the high end USA models was shipped overseas. Guild was virtually gutted and turned into an acoustic-only company, probably to avoid competition with Gretsch, which was allowed to stay pretty much like it wanted, and even expanded.

It would be very sad to see Hamer go the way of Guild, stripped down to avoid cross competition, but unfortunately that's the way it goes. ...

Anyway, I have two hamer guitars from 1993, and they rock, and it would be sad to see Hamer get gutted, now that it finally is back to how it used to be "in the old days"

This is not a fair characterization of FMIC. They did not "gut" Guild. They have shown a consistent effort to restore the brand to premium status. They have tried many things to do this, including contracting with the NYC archtop luthier Benedetto to produce premium but affordable archtops and moving flattop production to Tacoma, WA to use Tacoma Guitar facilities. When the quality of Guilds coming out of Tacoma didn't meet their satisfaction they moved Guild back to the Ovation/Hamer facility. If Hamer USA has been put on a low-output back burner it's been to save and restore Guild.

As far as what they've done with Jackson, that's what Hamer under Kaman did to/for themselves in the '90s. It's a survival trend that has been followed by many boutique brands, including PRS, Brian Moore, MTD (Michael Tobias Designs) basses, Lakland basses (the Skyline line is made in Indonesia), and even very upscale German bass-maker Warwick, who now makes various lines in Korea and China.

Gibson has shown an inept, hamfisted handling of many of its acquisitions (e.g., Tobias, Steinberger, Slingerland), but I can't say the same about FMIC. They have tried very hard to bring out the best in the brands they've bought, trying to find the best facility to produce them, refining the product lines to enable the brands to become profitable again. Gretsch is a success story because it has iconic status in pop music. George Harrison played a lot of Gretsch, as did Chet Atkins and the Monkees. Brian Setzer and others still play and endorse them. Guild hasn't had a noted electric user/endorser since Jack Casady (who since moved on to Epiphone) and Muddy Waters (who isn't endorsing anything these days).

Let's not forget that when a music company goes on the block, it's probably because their business model isn't working. Fender buys these companies up hoping to turn them around, but sometimes maybe that can't be done. There are a lot of guitar companies that thrived during the shred/metal boom of the '80s that have shrunk significantly since, including Jackson, Charvel, Kramer, Hamer, BC Rich.

It's not just metal either. A lot of guitar-based pop/rock has been replaced by sampled and synthed hip-hop. Tough times for guitar companies, and there will be casualties.

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well... Hamer is owned by... Kaman music? And they got bought out by FMI, which in the past has done a great job of buying up and then ruining brands. Jackson was bought up and pretty much everything but the custom shop and the high end USA models was shipped overseas. Guild was virtually gutted and turned into an acoustic-only company, probably to avoid competition with Gretsch, which was allowed to stay pretty much like it wanted, and even expanded.

It would be very sad to see Hamer go the way of Guild, stripped down to avoid cross competition, but unfortunately that's the way it goes. ...

Anyway, I have two hamer guitars from 1993, and they rock, and it would be sad to see Hamer get gutted, now that it finally is back to how it used to be "in the old days"

This is not a fair characterization of FMIC. They did not "gut" Guild. They have shown a consistent effort to restore the brand to premium status. They have tried many things to do this, including contracting with the NYC archtop luthier Benedetto to produce premium but affordable archtops and moving flattop production to Tacoma, WA to use Tacoma Guitar facilities. When the quality of Guilds coming out of Tacoma didn't meet their satisfaction they moved Guild back to the Ovation/Hamer facility. If Hamer USA has been put on a low-output back burner it's been to save and restore Guild.

As far as what they've done with Jackson, that's what Hamer under Kaman did to/for themselves in the '90s. It's a survival trend that has been followed by many boutique brands, including PRS, Brian Moore, MTD (Michael Tobias Designs) basses, Lakland basses (the Skyline line is made in Indonesia), and even very upscale German bass-maker Warwick, who now makes various lines in Korea and China.

Gibson has shown an inept, hamfisted handling of many of its acquisitions (e.g., Tobias, Steinberger, Slingerland), but I can't say the same about FMIC. They have tried very hard to bring out the best in the brands they've bought, trying to find the best facility to produce them, refining the product lines to enable the brands to become profitable again. Gretsch is a success story because it has iconic status in pop music. George Harrison played a lot of Gretsch, as did Chet Atkins and the Monkees. Brian Setzer and others still play and endorse them. Guild hasn't had a noted electric user/endorser since Jack Casady (who since moved on to Epiphone) and Muddy Waters (who isn't endorsing anything these days).

Let's not forget that when a music company goes on the block, it's probably because their business model isn't working. Fender buys these companies up hoping to turn them around, but sometimes maybe that can't be done. There are a lot of guitar companies that thrived during the shred/metal boom of the '80s that have shrunk significantly since, including Jackson, Charvel, Kramer, Hamer, BC Rich.

It's not just metal either. A lot of guitar-based pop/rock has been replaced by sampled and synthed hip-hop. Tough times for guitar companies, and there will be casualties.

You left out the part about Fender first moving Guild production from Westerly to Corona which was a miserable failure. The Benedetto guitars were great but the prices moved way north moving the prices above what the normal Guild buyer was willing to pay, lowering sales. Fender then bought Tacoma and moved Guild there, gutting the Tacoma line, to get Guild pricing back down and back on track. Tacoma was making VERY FINE instruments when Fender closed Tacoma and moved production to Ovation (not "back to" as they were never made at Ovation previously) with quite a few Tacoma employees. If Tacoma was so bad why did they move employees? Fender stated that they were consolidating two production facilities.

The only FMIC line that has not been gutted by Fender is Gretsch, due greatly in part that the Gretsch family are still owners.

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it ain't over till Jol sings

When did Jol become the controlling shareholder? Isn't he just a paid exec, at this point. Mind you, not an unenviable position - - he draws a check and does his thing. While probablyworrying about the staff and all the mouths they feed. In any other economy, he would probably be looking for the dough to buy out the business - - if he believes in it. Or the equipment if he wants to become his own master again. Just sayin'.

ehhhhhh.......

it was a playful bit of word play on the adage "it ain't over till the fat lady sings" nothing more nothing less.

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ehhhhhh.......

it was a playful bit of word play on the adage "it ain't over till the fat lady sings" nothing more nothing less.

But how can the fat lady sing if she's dead in the water?

This is getting confusing....

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Actually, I don't see anything to worry about.

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I wish I had the dough to put down a custom order right now.

All I can say is, "hang in there", to Jol and they guys. I am pretty sure as time passes Hamer guitars will be just as appreciated as, let's say, what a Gibson 58 JR, is today. It was not to long ago these guitars could be had for very little. Good quality will pay of in time.

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Guild hasn't had a noted electric user/endorser since Jack Casady (who since moved on to Epiphone) and Muddy Waters (who isn't endorsing anything these days).

I have to respectfully disagree...Kim Thayil from Soundgarden using the S100 Polara back in the 90's was popular enough by himself to prompt Guild to reissue this guitar. Otherwise though, that is all I can think of. A shame for some really fantastic guitars.

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