Albums ruined by a poor production?

[Gitslide]

The second MSG album . . . muddy undefined low-mixed bass guitar sound. I remember reading somewhere that the second kick drum track was lost, too. Ron Nevison did a lot of other work that's really great including the last 2 UFO albums w/ Schenker, Lights Out and Obsession.

So what went wrong?

[crunchee]

Most of the mid to late 70's albums had those incredibly dry drums. That was Foghat, Journey, Ted Nugent, Aerosmith, etc. with those lifeless sounding drums.

+1...not just those albums, but probably most from the '70's. Just kinda mixed into the background, only being there to keep time, I suppose. I once read a quote where somebody (I wish I could remember who) said that, in the '70's, drums sounded on record like someone slapping a wet mop on the ceiling. I kinda agree.

[MCChris]

You didn't really start to hear great drum sounds on a regular basis on rock records until the late '80s and into the '90s. Maybe in response to the rise of hip-hop and an emphasis on rhythm?

[Dasein]

Metallica - And Justice for All

Ozzy - Bark at the Moon

Horrible horrible horrible production that make those albums really difficult to listen to.

This is where different opinions prevail. I've always love the dry production on AJFA. Everything is so immediate and in your face. Sure, there's not a lot of bottom end, but that's because there are so many guitar tracks eating up sonic real estate.

NO there's no bass because they mixed him out. It was fuck with the new guy.

[aknapp]

Cheap Trick - In Color.

Sonically, the live versions of these songs are light years away from the bubble-gum pop version on the album.

[MCChris]

NO there's no bass because they mixed him out. It was fuck with the new guy.

Perhaps the stupidest stunt in the history of music. Sacrifice a good sound on a recorded work to mess with a new member. Beyond silly.

[coolfeel]

Imagine how good AJFA would sound if you could hear the bass...

[seeker]

Almost all Motorhead albums. Love the songs, hate the lack of low end; also too compressed. Notable exception is Hellraiser; theme track for Hellraiser III.

Agree 100% on Velvet Revolver. A shame they ruined a pretty decent album.

Electric Ladyland. Yeah, it was Jimi's baby, but wish it would have been mixed and mastered to AxisBAL standards.

[Disturber]

How about anything Kevin Shirely has done? Aerosmith, Zeppelin, the Black Crowes -- he managed to take the life out of all of them.

Those Black Crowes albums are great!

Bruce Fairbairn on the other hand. What a nutter. Turned everything into 80's mash. AC/DC, Aerosmith, you name 'em, they suck.

Shirely only did By Your Side, which even the band thinks is their worst record.

It's their worst record if you DONT like to party. As it is their partiest record. Personally I love it. It's just swings. Great riffs. Uptempo dance a vaganza.

He got them off the bong and into the up tempo groove again. I thank him for that. It's their most under rated record in my book.

Much better than the latter Lions for instance, that was a tired affair.

If these two tracks dont' get you up from that chair you are resting your ass on, then you don't know the groove baby!

Ad tracks like Welcome to the Goodtimes, Go tell the Congregation and Go Faster - you really can't call it a bad record huh.

[Jason01]

Imagine how good AJFA would sound if you could hear the bass...

I keep waiting for a remastered version with the bass back in it....... I'm still waiting.

[atquinn]

You didn't really start to hear great drum sounds on a regular basis on rock records until the late '80s and into the '90s. Maybe in response to the rise of hip-hop and an emphasis on rhythm?

I know everyone hates Nu Metal (now, at least ), but I thought it had some great drum sounds, especially when compared to what came before it.

Anyway, I'm generally not too picky when it comes to production, but I've only been able to make it a few songs into Going For the One by Yes. Something about how they did it makes it physically painful to listen to.

-

Austin

[velorush]

This looks promising (to me):

[tomteriffic]

Loud-as-fuck, compressed-to-shit, brick-wall mastering is a separate discussion.

Wrecked more albums 1965-1980 and onward than I can even remember. More recently put me off Rush entirely.

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

You didn't really start to hear great drum sounds on a regular basis on rock records until the late '80s and into the '90s. Maybe in response to the rise of hip-hop and an emphasis on rhythm?

Can you provide 2-3 songs each of what you consider lousy drum sounds and great drum sounds?

[Hamer Time]

You didn't really start to hear great drum sounds on a regular basis on rock records until the late '80s and into the '90s. Maybe in response to the rise of hip-hop and an emphasis on rhythm?

I remember when that started happening, we called them 'disco drums'. A lot of people hated loud drums, probably because it's not what we were used to. Rock was about loud guitars, not loud drums.

Now we're used to loud drums they sound weak on 70's mixes.

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

Yeah, I don't know.

I liked the drums on my old Styx and Night Ranger albums.

I just went back and listened to a few tracks from Bark at the Moon and it still sounds okay, too.

One thing I absolutely don't like is when the bass drum has an actual tone. Which usually happens because of another thing I didn't like from the hip-hop genre: unmuffled bass drums having significant duration: That's clown band stuff, in my opinion.

Then again, snare drums should also not have duration, and I do remember some hair band drums having snare hits that lasted a full a full half-second: that's a mild atrocity in my book.

But I'm probably in the minority on this issue, so I won't insist I'm right.

[Steve Haynie]

Good songs. Bad drum sound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmiqxyvExIU

[Steve Haynie]

Drums with OOOOMPH!

The guitar sound was a benchmark for rock and roll albums, too. The drums suffer from that 70's missing sound of missing bottom heads and dampeners, but they were out front on that album with all the guitars. Ted Templeman was the producer. The recording engineers were Don Landee and Stephen Jarvis.

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

Okay, I see what you are getting at, I think.

I don't think I would have really thought much about the drums much one way or the other in the first 3 examples, but I can definitely agree the drums are better in Montrose songe.

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

These drums, then, suck:

But these drums are pretty good:

Right?

I remember thinking that Gil Moore was deliberately trying to copy Bonham's drum sound/presence.

[unfun75]

Iron Maiden "Rock In Rio"

Holy shit that sounds bad. The crowd noise that doesn't sync. Wow. Produced by Kevin Shirley and Steve Harris!

[Brooks]

big +1 on sabs' born again (although i didn't like most of the songs either). sabotage & never say die also sound like demos, not finished albums. funny thing is the 1st sabs album basically IS a demo (recorded on two 4 tracks in 12 hours), but has the best gtr/bass/drum sounds of all their albums; crisp and full, not too much gain.

grand funk's albums all sound like ass, terrible gtr & drum sounds (i do like mel's farty bass tone, tho).

[Brooks]

Imagine how good AJFA would sound if you could hear the bass...

[anathemata]

Imagine how good AJFA would sound if you could hear the bass...

We're talking about Jason Newsted here, not Cliff Burton. Who cares if we can't hear the bass?

[anathemata]

Iron Maiden "Rock In Rio"

Holy shit that sounds bad. The crowd noise that doesn't sync. Wow. Produced by Kevin Shirley and Steve Harris!

Right. Shirley loves to compress the life out of anything. Probably the reason I just can't get into Joe Bonamassa.