KISS: RARHOF Update. Not Good.

[LordOfTheThighs]

Ace & Peter will NOT be performing with Gene and Paul.

That sucks a big one, doesn't it?

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ace-frehley-says-original-kiss-lineup-will-not-perform-at-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-induction-ceremony/

This excerpt from the interview sums it up:

"I don't think KISS fans are gonna be too excited and happy about the news, 'cause at this juncture, [KISS leaders] Paul [Stanley] and Gene [Simmons] have decided to perform with [current KISS members] Tommy [Thayer, guitar] and Eric [Singer, drums], and it looks like the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame is going along with it," Frehley said.

[diablo175]

Yup. Sorry but KISS is and always has been Ace, Peter, Paul and Gene. Not taking away from Kulick who did some tasty stuff with them but that was kind of a forgettable phase anyway. I can only hope that the crowd boos them off the stage.

[BTMN]

Meh. Not sure I care even a little bit at this point.

[Steve Haynie]

You know that saying about no matter how good looking a girl is, some guy is tired of her crap? Well, as much as I will travel to see Ace or Peter play a solo show, or go see a KISS © Co., Ltd. production, something tells me that playing in a band with Ace or Peter might get old after a while. Give them a costume and assistants and see how they act. If Gene would put his own mother in a whorehouse to make a buck, but not play with Ace and Peter again, something must be wrong with those guys.

[The Shark]

Is this really a surprise? There's some bitter feelings there. It's important to note that there are many bands inducted that are missing members not deceased. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a one-time reunion, but the fact that it won't happen at the induction to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is telling. The light is dimming.

[cynic]

After Paul's recent comments re: the hall, it shouldn't shock anyone that they're going to avoid turning the event into something special.

[tommy p]

To me, Vinnie Vincent is as important as some of the later players. He was brought in when they were at their absolute bottom and helped them climb back up with Lick It Up.

[Willie G. Moseley]

All entertainment is optional. ZZZZZZ

[Ting Ho Dung]

I think they should stick with Arena Football

[Disturber]

I think they should let these clowns perform instead. No one will know the difference anyway.

[hamerhead]

Tried listening to some Kiss the other day and failed miserably. But 40 years ago I liked it.

[MCChris]

To me, Vinnie Vincent is as important as some of the later players. He was brought in when they were at their absolute bottom and helped them climb back up with Creatures of the Night.

Fixed.

Paul had some good comments in the Classic Rock Magazine interview regarding which band members get inducted, citing the Chili Peppers bringing up their first drummer who was in the band before anyone knew who they were. They also excluded Navarro, which I found odd. There doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to it. If the Hall makes that call, why would they exclude a guy who was in Jane's Addiction, a darling to the Rolling Stone brass? And if the band makes the call, why isn't Eric Carr, a beloved member of KISS, going in?

So far we've only heard Ace and Peter's side; I wonder if/when we'll hear a response from Gene or Paul. Regardless, none of this is surprising. We have another CCR situation brewing here, where the other two living members were allowed onstage for the acceptance but excluded from the musical portion, during which they walked out of the theater (I think I'm remembering that correctly).

It's all very childish (as is gossiping about them, or worse, doing a Podcast about them) but I guess none of us plebes will ever fully understand the rock star ego. Which is probably for the best.

Edit: it just occurred to me that the Hall probably wants Navarro to go in first with Jane's, thus the Chili Peppers exclusion.

[Jeff R]

Dunno if it's the PR/marketing professional in me, but I personally think this may be force-fed publicity-stirring pre-event drama and Ace and Peter are ignorant in the purest sense at this point. It would not surprise me at all if at the "last minute," we see all parties performing onstage at the induction.

I may be putting too much of a fan's hope into it, but I'm entitled to do so: The most incredible Kiss performance I've ever experienced was the MTV "Unplugged" acoustic show in the 1990s when Ace and Peter joined the then-current band for a few songs. Not only a great show/performance but a true feel-good moment for the band's fans. I could completely see a similar event is being set up behind the scenes.

[sirDaniel]

kiss and charlie sheen should start a support group

kisssux

[DaveH]

How long have Thayer and Singer been with the band? How long were Frehley and Criss there (I mean actually with Kiss)? I lost interest in Kiss 35 years ago so I don't know those answers... But I'm guessing it has been at least equal length stints in the band, and maybe longer for Thayer and Singer(?). That would explain a lot about the exclusions/inclusions to me.

Same deal with AC/DC. Some people say it isn't AC/DC without Bon Scott... Well, yes it is, and in many ways it rises above. Both are excellent lineups, but the truth is Bon was there what, 6 or 7 years? Johnson is going on 34 years as front man.

Off topic rant: At the end of the day, Kiss (Gene and Paul) is still all about image, fame, and money... Not about making great music, and they don't get ANY of my money. AC/DC totally blows Kiss out of the water in every single respect. AC/DC IS rock n roll.

[LordOfTheThighs]

KISSOnline.com has a statement from the band:

To All Our Fans In Regards To The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame:

Out of respect, Ace and Peter's recent statements demand a quick response to you, our fans.

Our intention was to celebrate the entire history of KISS and give credit to all members including present long time present members Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer, and additionally Bruce Kulick and Eric Carr all who have made this band what it is, regardless of the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame's point of view.

Although KISS has moved forward far longer without them, Ace and Peter are at the very foundation of what we have built and this would all be impossible had they not been a part of it in the beginning.

It is over 13 years since the original lineup has played together in make-up and we believe the memory of those times would not be enhanced. Contrary to claims made through the media we have never refused to play with Ace and Peter.

We have spent 40 years dedicated to building KISS without quitting or wavering as the band has moved forward with huge tours and platinum albums through different important lineups for forty years, to this day.

KISS has always been a band unlike any other. That is why we started KISS. That is why we continue KISS. Being unlike other bands also means making choices and decisions unlike other bands.

This is understandably an emotional situation where there is no way to please everyone.

To bring this to a quick end, we have decided not to play in any line-up and we will focus our attention on celebrating our induction into the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame.

We are excited and are looking forward to seeing you all on the KISS 40th Anniversary worldwide tour.

I think thats the best way to diffuse the situation. The original 4 can all accept the accolades, and nobody gets slighted by having to sit out for a couple of songs.

[LordOfTheThighs]

kiss and charlie sheen should start a support group

kisssux

Go find another thread to piss on.

[tommy p]

To me, Vinnie Vincent is as important as some of the later players. He was brought in when they were at their absolute bottom and helped them climb back up with Creatures of the Night.

Fixed.

Paul had some good comments in the Classic Rock Magazine interview regarding which band members get inducted, citing the Chili Peppers bringing up their first drummer who was in the band before anyone knew who they were. They also excluded Navarro, which I found odd. There doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to it. If the Hall makes that call, why would they exclude a guy who was in Jane's Addiction, a darling to the Rolling Stone brass? And if the band makes the call, why isn't Eric Carr, a beloved member of KISS, going in?

So far we've only heard Ace and Peter's side; I wonder if/when we'll hear a response from Gene or Paul. Regardless, none of this is surprising. We have another CCR situation brewing here, where the other two living members were allowed onstage for the acceptance but excluded from the musical portion, during which they walked out of the theater (I think I'm remembering that correctly).

It's all very childish (as is gossiping about them, or worse, doing a Podcast about them) but I guess none of us plebes will ever fully understand the rock star ego. Which is probably for the best.

Edit: it just occurred to me that the Hall probably wants Navarro to go in first with Jane's, thus the Chili Peppers exclusion.

Didn't need fixing - I said Lick It Up on purpose. Vinne definitely raised the bar talent-wise and wrote some great songs on Creatures, but that was their worst-selling tour and album up to that point (and probably still is). They also chose to downplay Vinnie's involvement at the time by using Ace's picture on the cover. However, on Lick It Up Vinnie was fully acknowledged as a member of the band and that was the album that put them back on the map and for better or worse, MTV. As for the HoF's decision not to induct the later band members, that seems to like a backward way of acknowleding that the Ace/Peter era had the sales, popularity, and influence that the later lineups didn't.

Tried listening to some Kiss the other day and failed miserably. But 40 years ago I liked it.

I'm the opposite. I hated them when I was young and only started listening to them a few years ago.

How long have Thayer and Singer been with the band? How long were Frehley and Criss there (I mean actually with Kiss)? I lost interest in Kiss 35 years ago so I don't know those answers... But I'm guessing it has been at least equal length stints in the band, and maybe longer for Thayer and Singer(?). That would explain a lot about the exclusions/inclusions to me.

Same deal with AC/DC. Some people say it isn't AC/DC without Bon Scott... Well, yes it is, and in many ways it rises above. Both are excellent lineups, but the truth is Bon was there what, 6 or 7 years? Johnson is going on 34 years as front man.

Off topic rant: At the end of the day, Kiss (Gene and Paul) is still all about image, fame, and money... Not about making great music, and they don't get ANY of my money. AC/DC totally blows Kiss out of the water in every single respect. AC/DC IS rock n roll.

Mark Evans should have been inducted with AC/DC!

[LordOfTheThighs]

To me, Vinnie Vincent is as important as some of the later players. He was brought in when they were at their absolute bottom and helped them climb back up with Creatures of the Night.

Fixed.

Paul had some good comments in the Classic Rock Magazine interview regarding which band members get inducted, citing the Chili Peppers bringing up their first drummer who was in the band before anyone knew who they were. They also excluded Navarro, which I found odd. There doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to it. If the Hall makes that call, why would they exclude a guy who was in Jane's Addiction, a darling to the Rolling Stone brass? And if the band makes the call, why isn't Eric Carr, a beloved member of KISS, going in?

So far we've only heard Ace and Peter's side; I wonder if/when we'll hear a response from Gene or Paul. Regardless, none of this is surprising. We have another CCR situation brewing here, where the other two living members were allowed onstage for the acceptance but excluded from the musical portion, during which they walked out of the theater (I think I'm remembering that correctly).

It's all very childish (as is gossiping about them, or worse, doing a Podcast about them) but I guess none of us plebes will ever fully understand the rock star ego. Which is probably for the best.

Edit: it just occurred to me that the Hall probably wants Navarro to go in first with Jane's, thus the Chili Peppers exclusion.

Didn't need fixing - I said Lick It Up on purpose. Vinne definitely raised the bar talent-wise and wrote some great songs on Creatures, but that was their worst-selling tour and album up to that point (and probably still is). They also chose to downplay Vinnie's involvement at the time by using Ace's picture on the cover. However, on Lick It Up Vinnie was fully acknowledged as a member of the band and that was the album that put them back on the map and for better or worse, MTV. As for the HoF's decision not to induct the later band members, that seems to like a backward way of acknowleding that the Ace/Peter era had the sales, popularity, and influence that the later lineups didn't.

Tried listening to some Kiss the other day and failed miserably. But 40 years ago I liked it.

I'm the opposite. I hated them when I was young and only started listening to them a few years ago.

How long have Thayer and Singer been with the band? How long were Frehley and Criss there (I mean actually with Kiss)? I lost interest in Kiss 35 years ago so I don't know those answers... But I'm guessing it has been at least equal length stints in the band, and maybe longer for Thayer and Singer(?). That would explain a lot about the exclusions/inclusions to me.

Same deal with AC/DC. Some people say it isn't AC/DC without Bon Scott... Well, yes it is, and in many ways it rises above. Both are excellent lineups, but the truth is Bon was there what, 6 or 7 years? Johnson is going on 34 years as front man.

Off topic rant: At the end of the day, Kiss (Gene and Paul) is still all about image, fame, and money... Not about making great music, and they don't get ANY of my money. AC/DC totally blows Kiss out of the water in every single respect. AC/DC IS rock n roll.

Mark Evans should have been inducted with AC/DC!

I wouldn't blame Gene & Paul if they choose to not mention Vinnie Vincent. He's been a thorn in their side for years. I don't know exactly how much $$$ Vinnie claims is owed him, but KISS' lawyers

beat the claim. But as mentioned, Vinnie sparked the resurgence of KISS becoming a hard rock band again.

And I totally agree ... Mark Evans should have been inducted with AC/DC. He played a huge role on AC/DC's first 3 albums albums, and those albums are are held in the highest esteem.

AC/DC blowing KISS out of the water in every single aspect ... No

On my personal scorecard, I place them within a few points of each other.

[MCChris]

The best part of the Kiss announcement: no possibility of Dave Grohl horning in on the performance in any way.

Didn't need fixing - I said Lick It Up on purpose. Vinne definitely raised the bar talent-wise and wrote some great songs on Creatures, but that was their worst-selling tour and album up to that point (and probably still is). They also chose to downplay Vinnie's involvement at the time by using Ace's picture on the cover. However, on Lick It Up Vinnie was fully acknowledged as a member of the band and that was the album that put them back on the map and for better or worse, MTV.

In and of themselves, record sales do not equate to quality. If they did, we all better start worshipping at the altar of One Direction. Similarly, speed does not equate to talent on the guitar. Creatures is the better album, and Ace is the better guitar player. Vinnie 's true talent is in hard rock songwriting.

The only reason LIU put them back on the map is because they removed the makeup.

[BTMN]

HAHAHA on Dave Grohl!

I love Dave! He gets to rawk with the best of them though.

[LordOfTheThighs]

The best part of the Kiss announcement: no possibility of Dave Grohl horning in on the performance in any way.

LOL!

He'll probably overplay it again, when he sits in with Cat Stevens.

[alantig]

Gene and Paul may not have explicitly said they wouldn't play w/Ace and Peter, but Paul sure alluded to it in the Classic Rock interview.

I think it rankles Gene and Paul to no end that fans still love Ace and Peter despite how they screwed things up over the year. They repeatedly make the point that Singer and Thayer have been in the band longer. Singer and Thayer may be better technical players, but there's a certain spark and feel with the original band that the current lineup doesn't have, and that holds true for other bands as well - when Heart performed with their current lineup at their induction, it sounded great, but the song with the original lineup sounded like HEART.

These guys had the chance to do a one-time, no-strings-attached performance for fans. No talk of a full-fledged reunion and/or tour. No album. Just 10-15 minutes playing a couple classic songs.

And they're blowing it. I do give Ace and Peter credit for getting this word out now and forcing Gene and Paul's hand - tix go on sale tom'w. How thrilled would you be to pay $600 hoping to see the original lineup perform one last time and getting Eric and Tommy instead?

[cmatthes]

Ace and Peter were in the band when they wrote and recorded 95% of their quality catalog. Singer and Thayer have learned the Ace and Peter parts, not created anything really.

[dobieboy]

I continue to think how funny it is that Gene and Paul continue to recognize how important Ace and Peter are to Kiss and to their legacy.

That book we all bought.."Kiss: Nothin' to Lose" was all about their early history...they sold and made millions..The Re Union Tour/Farewell Tour.. demanded by the fans..done "for the fans" grossed tens of millions. Their most popular merchandising features Ace and Peter. As I understand it, the RRHOF votes were from the fans!! The RRHOF only wants to induct ACE, Peter, Paul and Gene...

Gene and Paul hate that they are still so tied to Ace and Peter...they even have Tommy and Eric in Ace and Peter's old costumes and make up!!!! (As opposed to creating "new" characters)

I don't think that any of the non make up eras compare in any way to the original 4..yes.Vinnie, Eric and Bruce are good musicians and helped to get them back on their feet, but come on!!

I do not think that there will be any last minute reunion at the ceremony...they don't need any publicity positive or negative to hype this..I'm glad to save $600.00 on a ticket...