Gibsons at Dave's Guitar

[Hbom]

I read on another forum that Dave's Guitar has given up on Gibson. Rumor is that Gibson raised the rules on how much a dealer has to spend to be an official Gibson dealer and Dave said FU. All rumor to me but came from folks who should know. If you are thinking about a new Gibby it might be a good time to be shopping at Dave's

http://davesguitar.com/products/gibson-memphis/type/electric/condition/new/

[crunchee]

Seems like Gibson put the screws to dealers in a similar fashion about 15 or so years ago, and DGS dropped them at that time, too.  That didn't last for more than three years IIRC, Gibson started hurting from it and made nice(er) with dealers afterward.  This happened before The Great Recession, otherwise Gibson probably wouldn't have tried it.

Edited to add:  Looks like DGS is discounting the regular new Gibson USA models too and maybe more, not just the new Gibson Memphis models.

[ARM OF HAMER]

                                        I understand that IS the case regarding Dave's Guitars outing Gibson..............he will no longer be a dealer. Rules were changed about how to "QUALIFY" to be a Gibson dealer so he is out..............for now at least. Some strange things going on at Gibson................Edwin Wilson has left the Custom Shop.............one of the big guns there so...........don't know why so I won't speculate...............perhaps  Jay "MURKAT" can provide us with his insight if he wishes.

[Hfan]

Yeah There was a full page + of 2016 aged R8s for $3,499 about a week to ten days ago. Most are gone now.

[HamerDave]

He's got a nice green Diablo to.  Ya know, if you're into that sorta thing

 

http://davesguitar.com/products/hamer/diablo-early-90s/

 

[crunchee]

27 minutes ago, HamerDave said:

He's got a nice green Diablo to.  Ya know, if you're into that sorta thing

 

http://davesguitar.com/products/hamer/diablo-early-90s/

 

Yup, it's been sitting at DGS for over a month and a half:

 

[tbonesullivan]

I remember this crap the last time Gibson pulled it. The company really is run by a bunch of imbeciles. They have these stupid rules regarding how much inventory they need to keep on hand, how much floor space needs to be devoted, etc etc.  Last time I think Sam Ash said "nuh uh" and AMS was cut out as a dealer.

I do not understand how anyone can think this actually helps their brand, unless now Gibson is just going to be selling everything on Amazon.

[cmatthes]

You may be on to something.  I think Henry would like nothing more than to cut out the dealer layer and become a direct sales operation.

[anotherfreak]

33 minutes ago, cmatthes said:

You may be on to something.  I think Henry would like nothing more than to cut out the dealer layer and become a direct sales operation.

well, they would need to make a guitar at liest as well as Carvin to pull that off

[tbonesullivan]

Problem is that Amazon doesn't really tolerate customer complaints very well. If you get too many complaints, they pull your items.

This has caused me to revise my SG plans though. I already was kind annoyed that the 2017 SG in Vintage Sunburst can only be found on amazon. This may just make me stick to hunting down a used one.

[SSII x 2]

I was once told that Gibby makes their authorized dealers buy all sorts of models whether they can sell them or not?

Like, a store that caters to rockers has to buy mandolins and banjos too!  Anyone know if that is the case?

[crunchee]

24 minutes ago, SSII x 2 said:

I was once told that Gibby makes their authorized dealers buy all sorts of models whether they can sell them or not?

Like, a store that caters to rockers has to buy mandolins and banjos too!  Anyone know if that is the case?

I dunno about that, but all those Firebird X guitars had to go somewhere.   

[DaveL]

16 hours ago, Hfan said:

Yeah There was a full page + of 2016 aged R8s for $3,499 about a week to ten days ago. Most are gone now.

Those were some nice prices..  someone posted the link on mylespaul, and one of the supporting dealers

didn't like it one bit...     am wondering if we'll see a little bit of a downward movement on these,  had

an R8 last year,  the thing was awesome,  just too much dough to have wrapped up in one guitar...

[murkat]

49 minutes ago, SSII x 2 said:

Anyone know if that is the case?

it is.

[murkat]

12 hours ago, cmatthes said:

become a direct sales operation

He has been wanting to do this for a very long time. Henry does not "see" each guitar in it's own personality like we do.

They are ALL the same to him.

Ex. An R9 is a R9, all of them. regardless of wood grain, weight, feel, etc. Nothing different from one to another.

Henry has always promoted the Gibson brand as a "lifestyle" over an instrument.

[SSII x 2]

33 minutes ago, crunchee said:

I dunno about that, but all those Firebird X guitars had to go somewhere.   

LMAO!

[Jakeboy]

14 hours ago, anotherfreak said:

well, they would need to make a guitar at liest as well as Carvin to pull that off

LOL

[Steve Haynie]

Years ago the store where I worked got Gibson, and it was a big deal.  The buy-in was significant.  There were levels in the deal.  First off, Epiphone was mandatory.  That put in a brand to compete with similarly priced guitars from other brands.  A store may have had to drop another brand when taking on Epiphone.  The electrics and acoustics may have been separate, or it may have been a requirement that the electrics had to go in stock before getting the acoustics.  Getting the mandolins and banjos could only happen once the acoustic line was in place.  We got a couple of guitars that were stamped as Historic, but Custom Shop guitars came in at another level.  All of this required more and more buy-ins.  Amps and such may have been separate, or maybe they were still tied to at least having Epiphone in stock.  Gibson wanted representation of all its models, so the store had to take some of those odd looking models as part of its annual buy-in.  . 

One year Gibson axed a bunch of dealer reps across the country.  The one in my area had been with the company for decades.  There were then a few reps to travel across wider areas.  The thing that really ended the deal with Gibson was when the company tried to make the store buy in at an amount that it could not support.  Eventually the buy-in for Gibson dealers was $100,000.00, making those stores "premier dealers."  That may have been dropped after a while-- I do not know.  It may have been good for the remaining dealers by making them more exclusive, but it did shake up the smaller dealers who had been stocking Gibson all along.  That was back in the 1990's when the big chain stores were cranking up and then failing. 

Many companies pushed the stores to increase their buy-ins, so that was nothing new.  Gibson went over the top with its $100K mark.  They offered a floor plan, meaning the dealer could finance the guitars put in stock.  The problem with that was some guitars that had to be sent back because of factory flaws.  They were charging interest on the guitars for the month or two the guitar was being repaired when they could have just sent a replacement.  One year we returned 8 out of 18 guitars from the initial order.  Another store in our area sent back more than half of 24 that were ordered.  These were not customer returns.  These were guitars that we would not put out for sale or had to take down because of something being wrong from the factory. 

My personal opinion was that Gibson was abusive toward its dealers and the store should have dumped Gibson sooner than it did.

[tbonesullivan]

7 hours ago, murkat said:

He has been wanting to do this for a very long time. Henry does not "see" each guitar in it's own personality like we do.

They are ALL the same to him.

Ex. An R9 is a R9, all of them. regardless of wood grain, weight, feel, etc. Nothing different from one to another.

Henry has always promoted the Gibson brand as a "lifestyle" over an instrument.

This reminds me a lot of the current attitude of Harley-Davidson. I think one of the Davidson kids even said that the motorcycles are "recreational vehicles". Sadly their vision for motorcycles has pretty much tainted the entire US motorcycle market. It's sad that a company that was once revolutionary has been reduced to a lifestyle brand, which goes for both Gibson and Harley.

[sled]

14 minutes ago, tbonesullivan said:

This reminds me a lot of the current attitude of Harley-Davidson. I think one of the Davidson kids even said that the motorcycles are "recreational vehicles". Sadly their vision for motorcycles has pretty much tainted the entire US motorcycle market. It's sad that a company that was once revolutionary has been reduced to a lifestyle brand, which goes for both Gibson and Harley.

That is marketing today.  Dilute the quality of the item and hype the lifestyle. 

 

[cynic]

1 hour ago, tbonesullivan said:

Sadly their vision for motorcycles has pretty much tainted the entire US motorcycle market.

The US mc market is tainted by the fact that nothing the US builds comes remotely close to the value/performance of any number of foreign bikes.

Erik Buell has produced some great bikes, but as good as they are he hasn't cracked the code on stealing any significant market share.

HD and Gibson are similar in that if both were new products being introduced today, neither would succeed.  

[Hamerica]

2 hours ago, tbonesullivan said:

This reminds me a lot of the current attitude of Harley-Davidson. I think one of the Davidson kids even said that the motorcycles are "recreational vehicles". Sadly their vision for motorcycles has pretty much tainted the entire US motorcycle market. It's sad that a company that was once revolutionary has been reduced to a lifestyle brand, which goes for both Gibson and Harley.

Actually there is more to that train of thought than one might imagine. 

http://www.mi-pro.co.uk/news/read/gibson-s-boss-talks-branding/012247

http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/News/en-us/gibson-harley-0513.aspx

http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/News/en-us/Gibson-Brands-Partner-with-Harley-Davidson.aspx

HJ and his management team has managed the brand to match their ability.

"Henry has always promoted the Gibson brand as a "lifestyle" over an instrument." - Murkat 

^^^^this speaks volumes or decibels if you prefer.

Hamerica

 

[Biz Prof]

Aside from Henry's lifestyle branding bullshit, his firm is still selling guitars and commanding a premium based primarily on the brand name.  It really doesn't take a Harvard MBA degree to recognize the inherent value in the Gibson trademarks. While he could have streamlined production and made fewer units of superb quality for sale at a superpremium price, he elected to expand, make a shit-ton of mediocre stuff that emulates features of the high end instruments that GCS produces, and diversify into product lines that bear almost no relation to guitar making. His fractional genius lies in that he knew/knows that a large segment of casual MI consumers know Gibson, Fender, and not much else. As such, he can peddle Gibson as a premium, enduring, and fashionable marque, whether that is represented on an Historic R9, a LP Studio, or a set of headphones. 

More learned and discriminating consumers know what lies behind the curtain, which is analogous to how experienced and technically educated motorcycle aficionados are leery of post-revival AND old AMF Harleys. The latter were made during a neglected era of the firm's history, while the former were made during a boom period in which production was ratcheted up at all costs to feed the demand from an increasing audience of yuppie HOGs. You know, the lifestyle seekers. 

The guitars that have shipped out of Nashville (and Bozeman) the last 20 years are a mixed bag, and if Henry is content in selling the "lifestyle" while continuing to ignore the quality of the overall line, he will both sully the Gibson rep with a shrinking sample of more serious players and dealers...and then he will STILL make money on the larger group of low-information consumers; largely, the same bunch who continue to purchase unreliable and poorly made products bearing iconic brand names.

There are reasons we love USA Hamers that Henry might not be able to appreciate or comprehend. But then, Hamer was never going to beat the Gibson brand in anything other than what matters to us--making a truly fine instrument, every single time. 

 

[Devnor]

What are you guys smoking?  Gibson isn't going direct sales.

I work in a completely different industry yet it's all the same. The premier product lines always have ever increasing demands, quotas, stocking levels, salesforce engagement and yes they look at your other product lines to make sure you are the right fit for them. If I like product "A" but won't sell product "B" then I'm not really holding up to my end of the distribution agreement that I signed when I agreed to carry the line. So, you either sell/stock product "B" or risk getting called on the carpet or worse yet your sales agreement will be terminated.  That's lost revenue that can be difficult to recover. The bottom line is this is business and business arrangements change almost every year.

Dave is old and is probably very tired of the hassle that comes with certain lines. Some days I feel the same way but I'm not sitting on a fortune of vintage instruments. So good for Dave - way to stick it to Henry.  But in the end it's Dave's business that suffers or put it more succinctly, it's Dave's employees that will suffer due to lost sales and commissions. 

[crunchee]

1 hour ago, Devnor said:

Dave is old and is probably very tired of the hassle that comes with certain lines. Some days I feel the same way but I'm not sitting on a fortune of vintage instruments. So good for Dave - way to stick it to Henry.  But in the end it's Dave's business that suffers or put it more succinctly, it's Dave's employees that will suffer due to lost sales and commissions. 

I'm pretty sure it's not Dave's first rodeo with Henry; and like I mentioned before, it's not Dave's first time that he dropped Gibson...last time IIRC, I believe that it was under very similar circumstances.