Is FMIC trying to destroy the Hamer brand name?

[tbonesullivan]

What I don't get is why FMIC is suddenly coming out with the Charvel "Desolation" series, which seems aimed at competing with the ESP and Schecter market. They already have a great brand in Hamer, so why don't they start marketting those more heavily? They already have the designs and the production capacity.

[Uncle Thor's Hamer]

Ovation suffered from a similar fate tied to confusion about import lines and poor distribution. The mistakes started when they would allow a small pawn shop or music store to carry the Slammer and Celebrity lines only, eschewing the American lines. Many people were exposed only to their Asian offerings and their good names started to go down the tubes because the general public started to equate Hamer and Ovation with import junk.

Yeah, if you can't walk into Guitar Center or your local mom/pop store and play it, it doesn't exist for most buyers. I've never seen an Adamas in a store, nor a new Hamer (with one exception). I guess the up side is that used Ovations and used Hamers remain a good value for buyers.

If I ever can afford it, I'd be pleased to buy a new Adamas or Hamer from the New Hartford factory.

[dhuber]

FMIC should be using Specials and Standards to eat Gibson's lunch, but they're not. Why is that?

I'm probably the least qualified on this board to comment but I'll sound off. I personally think Hamer USA will die. I'd like to see a response from everyone on this board who has custom ordered a Hamer and I'm guessing if you do that the price starts at $3000. That's crazy! At least for my budget. I can't believe Hamer is selling that many custom guitars in this economy. Used Excellent Condition USA Artists and Studios are easy to find. I can't comment on Standard, Monaco, Newport,Talladegadega models. I own about 10 guitars all USA ($600 to $1400 range) except one import. I just went over to Ebay and saw some of the XT models. They look nice and I'd like to play one.

To me Gibson and Fender players are locked in to there brand just like Hamer fans. My last purchase was a Studio from a Gibson player. He told me he could not get used to the fat neck and small frets. If Hamer wants to compete with Gibson they better forget custom. Get the assembly line running, advertise, and start giving some product away to some big name artists so fans can see the Hamer name. It seems when I go to a concert 90% of what is see is Gibson, Fender, and PRS. What's a Hamer?

[django49]

One question in my mind, relative to price points, is whether the prices are "list" or "street". I am not an expert, but have certainly seen custom orders accepted and filled at under 65% of stated list. It all depends upon how hungry the dealer is (I am assuming the maker requires orders to go thru a dealer rather than sell direct). And whether the maker is motivated to keep busy too.

My general perception is that the "dealer cost" is often 50% of MSRP. So, if a dealer sells a "$4000 guitar" for $2600, that is still a $600 profit----For which the dealer probably accepted a deposit and had little or none of his own cash tied up......And the deposit would allow him to sell the guitar even cheaper if the customer flakes. Of course, like a car, as soon as it goes out the door, its resale value probably drops to 40% of list (or $1600) IF the owner is lucky or well connected. Quite possibly less.

Case in point, for your "basic" (non-custom) Newport, Monaco or whatever listed at over $4k in the last price list I saw (2009), how many paid full bore? (Okay, overlooking that the prices bounced upward VERY sharply from 2006 or 2007 to 2009). How many would sell for $1600 used? $1500? Less?

I don't know if that is representative of the Hamer relationship.......But I have done a few things with some other "custom makers" to think this is a pretty good generality.

Still, if it came down to a "$4000 Monaco" for $2600 vs an imported Monaco for a quarter of that, a lot of people will conclude they can get 60% (??) of the value (and most of the looks) for 25% the price......And maybe have something left over for better pups and pots and such (if they care). A lot of imported Fenders and such get sold to folks that could never justify the "real thing". As someone stated above, at least some of them will eventually graduate.

I hope they can make something positive out of all this.

[Ted]

I want very badly for the entire Hamer line to succeed, but especially the US Line. Hopefully the XT series will get younger players interested who also hopefully will step up for the real deal=USA by the incredible Craftspeople in NH.

[Iceman8.6]

I have also met other guitarists that have formerly owned Hamers that do not have good things to say about them. When I ask whether or not they were made the in USA, they don't know.

http://www.firstact.com/Products/LimitedEditionGuitars.aspx

Pretty amazing that someone could own a guitar and be cluless regarding the country of origin. Maybe I am just a little anal.

Your kidding me right? I worked @ Autozone a few years ago and you would be amazed at how many people didn't even know year and/or model car they were driving! They would come in needing a water pump so I'd ask OK what year is it? "Its a Ford". OK what year is it? "Its a Ford" Arghhh

I have noticed the resell prices on some of the US made Hamers have been creeping up lately

[crunchee]

I have noticed the resell prices on some of the US made Hamers have been creeping up lately

Supplies of used USA Hamers are down on eBay, too...doesn't seem to be as many out there this year as there was last year. Somebody must be sitting on a crapload of used USA Hamers somewhere, I know it ain't me.

[django49]

I've done my best to take a few of the extras off the market in the past year----Someone else's turn now!

[G Man]

I've been trying to sell a used hamer for a month now and no takers to speak of.

[SteveB]

Yeah, if you can't walk into Guitar Center or your local mom/pop store and play it, it doesn't exist for most buyers. I've never seen an Adamas in a store, nor a new Hamer (with one exception). I guess the up side is that used Ovations and used Hamers remain a good value for buyers.

If I've ever seen new Hamers in a guitar store, I've usually seen the same ones in the same store 2 years later. Dealers have had issues with turnover on Hamer, so unless FMIC is going to do a gigantic marketing campaign it makes sense to let the orders just come to them when ready, as long as the business is there to support it.

[Steve Haynie]

Part of that depends on how hard the sales staff pushes Hamer.

[mc2]

I don't see why anyone here is bitching. All I ever see are complaints that sellers are "asking too much" for their used Hamers.

That's like going out and spending big bucks for a new Porshe and then hoping that the used value is 1/10th of what you just paid for it....and then complaining when sellers are trying to get 50 percent of the original price and hold the used martket value up. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot? You should be happy when they sell for more.

Unfortunately, Hamer is a ncihe brand in the market. Obviously there ARE buyers out there, just a small fraction compared to Gibson, Fender, etc. It's a shame that the Hamer name didn't use the same marketing as PRS -- or even Dean or BC Rich for that matter, if we want to compare U.S. brands with loads of imports.

Just be happy Fender hasn't used the Hamer name by issuing Hamer-branded turntables, microphones and vocoders yet to capitalize on music trends. At least it is still only guitars.

Perhaps FMIC might have Hamer import a pile of protected wood and capitalize on millions of dollars of free media coverage to relaunch the brand at some point in the future?

Just pray Fender handles Hamer better than they handled SUNN, Kubicki and some others...

[serial]

I've been trying to sell a used hamer for a month now and no takers to speak of.

A lot of that has to do with the demand for a particular model and the asking price. Some models get little respect and can still be had for not much more than the $350 HFC joke price. Others will fetch twenty times that. Models that were hot when they came out usually remain hot (Steve Stevens, Calis, etc.).

[django49]

Having bought 4 guitars, directly or indirectly, thru this site in fairly short order, and all of them at a relatively high price (as a multiple of the "tree-fiddy"), I know I have less history than most. I think a lot of Hamers, and do not have a regret at having spent over $10k for four VERY SPECIAL instruments. My playing does NOT justify such a commitment, but I DO intend to play them, not just look at them every once in a while.

Not sure that these were LOGICAL decisions. Always nice to get a good price but then you always want them to not lose value either. Like buying stocks, even if I am not looking at these as "investments". (Lately I am not sure that STOCKS can necessarily be considered investments!)

Still. it is interesting to see, recently, a couple near mint recent year models not finding a buyer at around a third of what list would have been......And each with PU upgrades that SHOULD have been attractive to many, based upon this board.

For me, I gotta stop before it becomes an addiction! If they WERE cheaper, it would be easier to add.

[Crimsontider]

$100 1994 Korean import cort factory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDTY2hZTyB4

Short answer, it is moot!

Yes and No. It only hurts to the people they already alienated. People that buy the cheap Hamer's are most likely heavy rockers. A customer that is going to order a new Hamer is already educated to the quality he is getting in his guitar much like the car he is now not getting. Since Hamer already alienated the group of people that these cheap guitars could influence by doing away with quality superstrats makes selling their name moot. These heavy metal rockers aren't really interested in these quality but more multi purpose guitars of today.

How it effects me as someone that likes vintage superstrats like the Californian and Diablo.

There used to be quality Strat style factory made imports that were damn good guitars, like the original Hamer Slammer series. You can't sell these guitars easily because the dwindling down of quality with similar shape and name is too much for the average buyer to know. Hamer never bothered with having anything to distinguish some of their imports model names other than where it was made until the XT's. An import Californian can vary from a gigging guitar to a plywood beginners guitar. So it makes the selling of vintage imports very difficult.

But to my advantage, I bought a 96 Korean Hamer Californian Slammer Series for $100 because the pawn shop seller blue booked the guitar as a Slammer by Hammer. One is made of Alder with good Duncan designed pups and the other is made of some sort of plywood. But I bought the guitar because it was a Hamer. I just got lucky that it was of early quality. But I could have just as easily gotten home and found the sound lacking to my ears.

[KH Guitar Freak]

Ironically, most musician I've spoken to remembered Hamers for being shredders guitars in the 80s and 90s...

[gorch]

Well, I see it simple. Hamer USA will remain a custom shop as the Fender custom shop is to the industrial lines like MIM i.e.

If Hamer ever had a broadly known brand name in the world in the past it certainly is not existing any more. The XT line will feed the Hamer name to become a broadly known brand name as to great quality compared to the price or in a second thought, bringing boutique to the masses. The lust for Hamer XT buyers to reach out for a Hamer USA comes second.

Today, Hamer without the XT line would be a dead end to me within an enterprise like FMIC. The fact that FMIC moved to market the XT line proves that they have subtantial interest in the Hamer brand as a whole. One have to understand or consider how the industrial music instrument market works today. People who bought Hamer USA in the past are growing older. Young people would never know about Hamer if not from the mass market.

[Crimsontider]

People who bought Hamer USA in the past are growing older. Young people would never know about Hamer if not from the mass market.

If anyone is familiar with the run of the mill 80's, early 90's SE Asian strat bodies imports like the Charvel model 3& 4's and other similar quality imports, how does the XT Californians compare? When I played my Charvel, I felt like I was playing a good metal guitar. And how about the Californian XT of today vs a 90's Hamer Slammer Series?

The XT's use Basswood, which is a budget wood with the best sound imo. It lacks a lot of personality but can be versatile because of that. The Slammer series used Alder, Mahogany or Maple I believe for the bodies. Mine is Alder I am pretty sure. Is the XT similar in quality? I would have to believe that the quality of a guitar with a Hamer name should not dip below these Hamer Slammer Series.

The recent Slammer by Hammer was/is a huge mistake in my opinion.

[stratacus]

Mission accomplished.

[JohnnyB]

Mission accomplished.

Fender didn't have to be "out to destroy the Hamer brand name." They pretty much managed to do it themselves. By the time FMIC acquired it in a much bigger deal for other purposes (Kaman's distribution network), Hamer was on life support. Like life support, it's expensive to maintain with little hope of resuscitation. After 5 years, they finally pulled the plug. That's hardly a malevolent decision.

By corporation standards, FMIC is not that big a company, and the current iteration is the result of Fender managers and employees buying the company away from CBS Musical Instruments in the '80s.

[stratacus]

Mission accomplished.

Fender didn't have to be "out to destroy the Hamer brand name." They pretty much managed to do it themselves. By the time FMIC acquired it in a much bigger deal for other purposes (Kaman's distribution network), Hamer was on life support. Like life support, it's expensive to maintain with little hope of resuscitation. After 5 years, they finally pulled the plug. That's hardly a malevolent decision.

By corporation standards, FMIC is not that big a company, and the current iteration is the result of Fender managers and employees buying the company away from CBS Musical Instruments in the '80s.

I disagree with the mercy killing spiel. Yes, Hamer was on a downhill slide for a myriad of reasons, but I also think FMIC whiffed it.

[kizanski]

I disagree with the mercy killing spiel. Yes, Hamer was on a downhill slide for a myriad of reasons, but I also think FMIC whiffed it.

Is there anyone here who doubts that FMIC knows how to market and sell guitars?

You need not go any farther than to look at Gretsch.

Hamer was euthanized, period.

[belgian]

This appeared on the Vintage Guitar FB page :

Fender Ceases Hamer Production

By WARD MEEKER | Published: JANUARY 4, 2013

Fender Musical Instruments Corp. has suspended production of Hamer instruments, “…to focus its efforts on other brands in the company’s portfolio,” according to John Chermesino, the company’s spokesman for Hamer. He added that should the market dictate need for Hamer instruments, the company will consider once again making them.

“We will continue to service all consumer and dealer inquiries for warranty service and support for the Hamer product line,” he added. “Our Customer Service department will have access to the list of finished goods, assemblies, and parts to address customer requirements. We will support the Hamer brand, its products and related trademarks.”

[cmatthes]

Thanks, Conrad.

That's an interesting comment...leaves the door open for them down the road, potentially.

[gorch]

Thanks Conrad! The article raises speculation if FMIC also had cut production of the XT line. Someone know about that?