Musing on "Market Value": a Guitar Story

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

I was really struggling last week.

Yamaha is pretty much my favorite brand. There are just some things you can get with Hamer you can't get anywhere else, right?

So a Yamaha Pacifica PAC 812v popped up on Guitar Center the other day. No picture...but they said it was red.

I have a PAC 612v, and it is gorgeous (transparent dark orange over 3D flamed maple with a black pickguard...) and plays quite well.

Looks like this:

I also have a PAC 604w, and it is rather plain. The transparent blue is so dark it usually looks black. Plus it has a white pickguard, which is rather "meh". The advantage it has over the 612v is a push-push coil tap and locking tuners, so it is worth keeping despite being not as pretty.

Both stay in tune pretty well using the trem.

Both have Seymour Duncan JBs in the bridge, so sound great, but both also have Yamaha single coils in mid and neck, which are sufficient, but not awe-inspiring by any means.

The 812v they had for sale was a deep red transparent over flame w/ a black pickguard. This is just about my favorite color combination.

Here's a pic of what I think it looks like:

So it is more beautiful than the PAC 612v, but it also has a pull-push coil tap and locking tuners, so it has all the functionality of the 604w.

And even better, it has Seymour Duncan SSL-1s for the single coils to go with a Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge.

So it should sound awesome.

The problem is they were asking $450 for it.

I've been watching Yamahas for more 18 months, and that is significantly high. I got my second PAC 604w for $180 shipped. The only superstrat Yamaha guitars that go for above $400 are the 1200 series guitars. Everything else is around $300.

But seeing a PAC 812 on the market is pretty rare, actually. In 18 months, I've actually seen more Yamaha 14xx guitars for sale as have of the PAC 812 model. And 3:1 for 12xx models versus the PAC 812 model. (Yamaha RGX 8xx guitars are easy to find).

So my dilemma was: do I wait for them to realize their mistake and drop the price? If I go that route, someone local could buy it, or someone else could decide they are willing to pay it...who knows how long it would be before I saw another PAC 812v? And who knows what color it would be?

So I went ahead and got it. When I was talking to them on the phone, it turns out that despite being in the used section, this is pretty much new condition. Extremely minor buckle rash on the back, no other dings, no fret wear.

It should get to the local Guitar Center store Tuesday, and I'll pick it up Wednesday. Pictures of my guitar soon after.

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

The moral of the story is that "what a guitar is worth" is really variable. It must be worth more to one person than anyone else, or no one would ever buy or sell guitars...

[Caddie]

If you think the price tag is too high. Make an Offer. There's no harm in negotiating. What's the worst thing that can happen? They say no. Seems like there's a lot of reluctance around here to negotiate, not just the HFC. All of them, Gear Page, Harmony Central....on-line retailers too. Make an offer.

Cheers!

caddie

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

I did. They didn't take it.

But they did cut shipping to just $22.

So with tax and shipping: $500.

Even though that might be objectively too high, I still paid it. Because I wanted it badly enough, I was willing to pay a premium.

I'm not planning on selling it, so the amount I paid for it is pretty much immaterial.

I should end up enjoying it as much as guitars that cost two and three times as much (but which were still worth buying at a higher price, despite objectively not being any better in tone, playability, or craftsmanship...)

[Crimsontider]

The moral of the story is that "what a guitar is worth" is really variable. It must be worth more to one person than anyone else, or no one would ever buy or sell guitars...

P. T. Barnum likes!

With just what you wrote, what is money worth?. In reality, you want to know the mean price of a guitar while pondering how much more you are willing to pay vs that other person, that's were your moral of the story comes into play.

You must be getting ready to unload

[cmatthes]

If you love it, and it makes you happy, who cares what you paid for it?

[veatch]

This is capitalism at its finest. An object is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If something about it makes it more desirable and less common (color, options in this case), the value will go up.

And Mr. Matthes has it correct. ...to a degree... If you paid like, $2k or something, we might be starting an intervention...

Enjoy the guitar.

[django49]

Slightly different way to look at it......Money is worth something, but so is your time. If you want it, might have to wait another 18 months (or longer) and might not get what you want anyway, how much is your time worth vs the extra (relatively small) amount? I KNOW that I have overpaid for some things.....But I got them......AND I am not getting any younger! Might just as well have the extra time to enjoy it.

[tobereeno]

I think you got a fair deal. You really wanted that particular guitar, not many of them are for sale, and in the grand scheme of things $500 ain't a lot of bones. Much depends on timing and seller motivation. I own a USA B12L that was dead mint - $800. Other guitars cost me full market value. But they're all very lovely and equally loved. I rarely sell instruments so if I buy something, I'm really not thinking about resale value - I'm thinking about what it's worth to me.

[Michael_B]

Congratulations on scoring a great guitar that you wanted.

I agree that the dollar difference between what a "fairer" price and what you paid isn't so much to worry about since you'll get (1) certainty of owning the guitar and (2) more time enjoying it.

Bigger picture, though, a wonderous thing about capitalism is that for every buyer, there's a seller. Two people see the same item, but with different concepts of value.

Enjoy your new guitar!

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

Okay, in retrospect, maybe this wasn't as profound as I originally thought...

[Disturber]

Yamaha guitars and basses, they get the job done. Usually very good instruments. I'd take a Yamaha any day over anything Ibanez makes.

They are truly the Hamer of Japanese guitars.

[atomicwash]

I recently overpaid for a guitar that I really wanted. I am SO glad I did, we've bonded nicely. The seller asked at least twice, are you sure you want this one?

I've also shopped wisely and pocketed money through a flip here and there.

I've enjoyed the Capitalism conversation. It really applies to anything... houses, boats, cars, etc. It's good to reflect on that once every so often.

[Never2Late]

The last time I went into a Guitar Center, I checked-out a used Hamer Studio that was excellent. The toolbag manning the used-guitar station didn't even know what a Hamer WAS.....and couldn't recall anyone famous who ever played one. This 'salesman' claimed he was a "guitar expert" or some-such.....what does that tell you? BTW, I bought a NOS Studio at a mom-n-pop music store for the same money that GC wanted for their used one....I like ebay more than I like GC.

[Tres Aardvarks]

It clearly was worth the $500 to you. It's not uncommon for an item to have a couple people who will want to pay more than most will (if it just happens to line up EXACTLY with what they desire).

[Thundersteel]

If you love it, and it makes you happy, who cares what you paid for it?

This! ^^^^

[cynic]

In my way of thinking, worth is more relative than value. I think most would agree the craftsmanship, time, and materials put into a potato equate to a specific value, but the perceived worth of the product is debatable.

The fun of dealing in the Japanese guitar market is that even if you feel something is worth a 50% premium over it's true value, you're still only talking about a couple hundred bucks. If you were looking at a $2000 guitar, a 50% premium makes waiting look pretty attractive.

It's kinda like penny stocks. Lots of fun, but in the end your efforts won't produce much of value.

I should end up enjoying it as much as guitars that cost two and three times as much (but which were still worth buying at a higher price, despite objectively not being any better in tone, playability, or craftsmanship...)

I'd like to see the objective data on this

[elduave]

Really nice Orange one!

[specialk]

I picked up this Cruisebass years ago. I don't even remember what the price was now, only that it was probably higher than it should've been. But it was exactly what I wanted. So now I have exactly what I want, and I would've blown the extra cash it cost on something else anyway.

To each their own.

[HSB0531]

I picked up this Cruisebass years ago. I don't even remember what the price was now, only that it was probably higher than it should've been. But it was exactly what I wanted. So now I have exactly what I want, and I would've blown the extra cash it cost on something else anyway.

To each their own.

What year is that one?

[specialk]

Sorry to derail, Nathan. It's a 1983:

[Toadroller]

The moral of the story is that "what a guitar is worth" is really variable. It must be worth more to one person than anyone else, or no one would ever buy or sell guitars...

Ludwig von Mises couldn't have said it better himself.

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

Sorry to derail, Nathan. It's a 1983:

Derail at will.

The journey is more important than the destination. I just like conversations about guitars.

[crunchee]

The moral of the story is that "what a guitar is worth" is really variable. It must be worth more to one person than anyone else, or no one would ever buy or sell guitars...

Everything is worth something to somebody, though it REALLY stretches credibility sometimes. Anybody still trying to cash in on Beanie Babies?

http://www.cracked.com/article_21498_8-insanely-valuable-items-you-probably-owned-and-threw-out.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=100214

[BubbaVO]

I hope you enjoy the guitar. Tone report please.