How much live is it live?

[gorch]

Everyone knows about live music on TV almost always is playback. That's accepted as no one really wants to watch endless soundchecks and false plays in shows.

Having had a chat about my sons TV appearance this summer today and a few stories I have heard about playback in big venues, for years it seems to be a rather regular that popular artists run shows on big stages preferably playback rather than live. This especially applies to electronic music but by far is not limited on any genre. Personally, I noticed that classic Marshal amp walls if not disappeared are rather loose microphoned.

So, what's real about that?

[Brooks]

Huh?

[scottcald]

I think many bands are running backing tracks to fill in stuff.  It seems the range is everything/almost everything to  background vocals to extra instruments to the lead vocal etc.  I personally hate it, but sadly many audience these days don't care so much and want to see recreations of the artist video with a great sound system, some want all live, and heck, some don't even care if any band members are there (see Foreigner Farewell Tour).

[JGale]

"You say commodity, I say commodities. We march arm-in-arm into the night!"

[hamerhead]

The worst I saw 'live' was when Johnny Van Zant was opening for somebody while touring the Brickyard Road release. The band sounded good (if forgettable) but when they played the song 'Brickyard Road', that big hooky chorus came blasting out at about twice the volume. You'd have thought their sound guy might make a correction after the first time, but no. It stood out there like a sore thumb the whole way through.

I heard from someone that Metallica had a bank of computers for that little something extra. Didn't see it for myself.

It's been going on forever. And then there's the doctored 'live' recordings....

[Steve Haynie]

47 minutes ago, hamerhead said:

I heard from someone that Metallica had a bank of computers for that little something extra. Didn't see it for myself.

Those Metallica vocal harmonies are pretty complicated and hard to do live.

[Willie G. Moseley]

There was one band I "heard" in '94 at a "concert" and I found it curious that most songs were the same length as what I heard on the album version; no stretching out, although bootleg recordings from the same tour did have extended versions. At the concert I attended I suspected sequencing and/or tracks that were being used, embellished sonically by the instruments onstage. Apparently they could pick and choose whether to go all-out live or rely on technology.

[The Shark]

Milli Vanilli lives....

At a recent ZZ Top show where I was backstage, Billy Gibbons had a wall of Magnatone amps.  Didn't see a mic on any of them.  There was a little Tweed amp mic'd up next to Frank.  Faux equipment has been around forever.  Playing "tapes" is bullshit.  I don't think any of the Magnatone amps were used.  And who knows what was going on at the board.  Might be "Some modeling goin' on" in my best gruff Billy voice.

 

[scottcald]

1 hour ago, The Shark said:

Milli Vanilli lives....

At a recent ZZ Top show where I was backstage, Billy Gibbons had a wall of Magnatone amps.  Didn't see a mic on any of them.  There was a little Tweed amp mic'd up next to Frank.  Faux equipment has been around forever.  Playing "tapes" is bullshit.  I don't think any of the Magnatone amps were used.  And who knows what was going on at the board.  Might be "Some modeling goin' on" in my best gruff Billy voice.

 

Was that with his rack with the JMP-1 preamps?

[cmatthes]

4 hours ago, The Shark said:

Milli Vanilli lives....

At a recent ZZ Top show where I was backstage, Billy Gibbons had a wall of Magnatone amps.  Didn't see a mic on any of them.  There was a little Tweed amp mic'd up next to Frank.  Faux equipment has been around forever.  Playing "tapes" is bullshit.  I don't think any of the Magnatone amps were used.  And who knows what was going on at the board.  Might be "Some modeling goin' on" in my best gruff Billy voice.

 

Yep.  Billy’s all digital these days.  The amps are stage props, just like the stack of Bixonic Expandoras…at the show I took these pics, Dusty had a similar Magna-Wall behind him as well.

[princeofdarkness56]

A wall of fake amps on stage has been going on forever. It’s supposed to look cool and fill up a large stage. I’d much rather see a band in a smaller club setting.  Less chance of fookery.  
 

I use to do security at a few venues and I got to see some examples of what everyone is saying. The absolute worst thing I saw was some poser band whose name escapes me now, but they were popular with a younger crowd. They had the wall of fake amps but they took it up a notch. Standing behind the amps unseen by the crowd was another guitar player doing the majority of playing while one of the band’s guitar players ran around on stage more interested in poses for the crowd. Disgusting. 
On the opposite end of the spectrum was the stoner sludge band Sleep. 3 piece band whose bass player and guitar player each used 3 Orange stacks all plugged in. Loudest concert I ever attended. Felt like I was on the tarmac behind a 747 taking off. And I always used ear protection. We had a decibel meter and they came in one or two meters of being shutdown. Even the roadies shook their heads asking what the hell. 

[Dana_V]

There's a popular local band here where I live that's VERY highly paid;  they do a lot of corporate events as well as high-end restaurant/bar gigs. They do note-perfect renditions of hits from the 80s to the present and do it very well. The soccer moms love them (think Nance & Rand from Middle Class Fancy). What you see onstage is a drummer, bass player, guitar player and a singer - and they'll all very good at what they do. No fake wall of amps, so at least there's that.

But...the vast majority of what you hear is backing tracks. A couple of years ago I saw them at a July 4th event at a high school football stadium (and this is Texas, so the stadium seats 10,000). They sounded great. When they launched into Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'" the packed stadium went nuts.

But there were moments when there was basically a full band coming out of the speakers and nobody onstage was doing anything at all. Just standing there.

I found it boring, and it struck me as to how boring it must be to be that structured - no opportunity to extend a song if the crowd is into it (or cut it short if they're not).

Then again, maybe I'm just envious: those guys probably got paid more for playing along to backing tracks at that one show than I did in a whole year of bar gigs.

[MCChris]

13 hours ago, scottcald said:

I think many bands are running backing tracks to fill in stuff.  It seems the range is everything/almost everything to  background vocals to extra instruments to the lead vocal etc.  I personally hate it, but sadly many audience these days don't care so much and want to see recreations of the artist video with a great sound system, some want all live, and heck, some don't even care if any band members are there (see Foreigner Farewell Tour).

 

11 minutes ago, Dana_V said:

There's a popular local band here where I live that's VERY highly paid;  they do a lot of corporate events as well as high-end restaurant/bar gigs. They do note-perfect renditions of hits from the 80s to the present and do it very well. The soccer moms love them (think Nance & Rand from Middle Class Fancy). What you see onstage is a drummer, bass player, guitar player and a singer - and they'll all very good at what they do. No fake wall of amps, so at least there's that.

But...the vast majority of what you hear is backing tracks. A couple of years ago I saw them at a July 4th event at a high school football stadium (and this is Texas, so the stadium seats 10,000). They sounded great. When they launched into Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'" the packed stadium went nuts.

But there were moments when there was basically a full band coming out of the speakers and nobody onstage was doing anything at all. Just standing there.

I found it boring, and it struck me as to how boring it must be to be that structured - no opportunity to extend a song if the crowd is into it (or cut it short if they're not).

Then again, maybe I'm just envious: those guys probably got paid more for playing along to backing tracks at that one show than I did in a whole year of bar gigs

The phenomena described in these posts, regarding both backing tracks and bands with few or no original members, just goes to show that the vast majority of people at any show are there for the songs, and they don't care how they're delivered. This also explains why there's a market for cover bands.

[Jimbilly]

When I saw The Who about 6 or 8 years ago, I was highly suspicious that Roger's iconic "yeahhhhh!!!" scream was a little too spot-on, that would be a difficult scream to nail every time at any age, so why not? If it was a sample, it would be more fun to tweak it just enough to make it sound a little more strained or less like the recording in some way.

I would be offended to pay to see a sing along from a big name or small. 

[scottcald]

23 minutes ago, MCChris said:

 

The phenomena described in these posts, regarding both backing tracks and bands with few or no original members, just goes to show that the vast majority of people at any show are there for the songs, and they don't care how they're delivered. This also explains why there's a market for cover bands.

Yeah, but going to see a cover band at a local bar/club is different than shelling out $150 to see an officially sanctioned tribute band.   I think one shift that really soured me was seeing video of Van Halen from like the early 90s when he stopped playing keyboards on Jump live.   They should've put Michael Anthony's background vocals on too after they booted him. 

[scottcald]

20 minutes ago, Jimbilly said:

When I saw The Who about 6 or 8 years ago, I was highly suspicious that Roger's iconic "yeahhhhh!!!" scream was a little too spot-on, that would be a difficult scream to nail every time at any age, so why not? If it was a sample, it would be more fun to tweak it just enough to make it sound a little more strained or less like the recording in some way.

I would be offended to pay to see a sing along from a big name or small. 

Especially if it's not spelled out somewhere.  I don't get the pop concerts where practically everything is canned.  I can play the recording at home, thanks. 

[Jakeboy]

This is why we have jukeboxes.

Fake posery is BS. 

[Dutchman]

I have several bands rehearse in my studio. The only one that doesn't use backing tracks is the Grateful Dead tribute band. The drummer takes care of all the backing tracks and all wear in ear monitors. Some tracks announce changes. Bridge/Chorus etc.

[alantig]

To me, there's a difference between using tracks to enhance a performance - like the Who and how they performed "Baba O'Riley" and "Won't Get Fooled Again" for years w/the synths on tape - and using tracks to cover what you can't do.  When you use it to trick people, that's when it crosses the line for me.

I go back to Kate Bush's 1979 tour - she had a ton of choreography, and she was one of the first (if not the first) to use a headset mic.  But for one song, "Hammer Horror", she couldn't do the choreography she wanted for the song and sing it to her standards.  So she opted to do the dance routine and not sing - but she did it w/o the mic because she didn't want people to think she was singing when it was actually recorded.  I can respect that.  But I saw a Madonna show on HBO one year that was recorded near the end of her tour, and it was astounding how raspy her voice was on one song, but perfect on the next one, which just happened to have more demanding choreography.

And as was touched on, I don't want the live performance to be just like the record.  I have the record.  This is live - it's supposed to be different.  I read an interview w/a blues guitarist who was hired as a sideman, and he asked the singer how close to the record he wanted his parts.  The singer said, "That was what it sounded like that day in that studio.  I hired you - don't worry about the record." (paraphrased)

[Biz Prof]

I didn't mind the piped-in synth when Van Halen reformed in 2007., primarily because I went to that concert to see Ed play guitar; not keys.  I'm also not bothered by canned string parts where those were significant in the original recording, regardless of the artist. That's just pragmatic.

Otherwise, I find it in poor taste for bands to embellish their live shows with backing tracks, especially when the parts on those canned tracks are composed of instruments represented on the stage.  But perhaps my biggest pet peeve is watching a band perform songs with vocal harmonies while having several (unused) vocal mics on stage (typically a cover band), yet the only member actually singing is the lead vocalist....with the help of a harmonizer. 

[The Shark]

7 hours ago, MCChris said:

 

The phenomena described in these posts, regarding both backing tracks and bands with few or no original members, just goes to show that the vast majority of people at any show are there for the songs, and they don't care how they're delivered. This also explains why there's a market for cover bands.

The folks that come to see us always comment on the songs we play, not necessarily how well we play them.  We used to do the B-Sides from the albums we loved and the crowd would just stare.  Now, we play nothing that didn't make the top 25 and get a great response.  Plus, we only play every couple of months, so we don't wear out our welcome.

[The Shark]

4 hours ago, Biz Prof said:

I didn't mind the piped-in synth when Van Halen reformed in 2007., primarily because I went to that concert to see Ed play guitar; not keys.  I'm also not bothered by canned string parts where those were significant in the original recording, regardless of the artist. That's just pragmatic.

Otherwise, I find it in poor taste for bands to embellish their live shows with backing tracks, especially when the parts on those canned tracks are composed of instruments represented on the stage.  But perhaps my biggest pet peeve is watching a band perform songs with vocal harmonies while having several (unused) vocal mics on stage (typically a cover band), yet the only member actually singing is the lead vocalist....with the help of a harmonizer. 

Great vocal harmonies are one of the toughest things to replicate in covering a hit.  We pride ourselves on that as much as any other attribute.  I love to sing backup as much as lead.  And always have.  No auto pitch correct for us.  Another abomination in the industry.  We have a country guy around here that uses one and it's just hideous.  I did get to see him at our local county fair this year and the guy running the board didn't have it working so well.  "Exposed" is the word I'd use!

[mathman]

21 hours ago, Willie G. Moseley said:

There was one band I "heard" in '94 at a "concert" and I found it curious that most songs were the same length as what I heard on the album version; no stretching out, although bootleg recordings from the same tour did have extended versions. At the concert I attended I suspected sequencing and/or tracks that were being used, embellished sonically by the instruments onstage. Apparently they could pick and choose whether to go all-out live or rely on technology.

Everybody has a bad fuck it day.  Is canned versions better than a crap show? Inquiring minds and all that.

[Biz Prof]

1 hour ago, The Shark said:

Great vocal harmonies are one of the toughest things to replicate in covering a hit.  We pride ourselves on that as much as any other attribute.  I love to sing backup as much as lead.  And always have.  No auto pitch correct for us.  Another abomination in the industry. 

Ditto.

[MCChris]

17 hours ago, The Shark said:

The folks that come to see us always comment on the songs we play, not necessarily how well we play them.  We used to do the B-Sides from the albums we loved and the crowd would just stare.  Now, we play nothing that didn't make the top 25 and get a great response.  Plus, we only play every couple of months, so we don't wear out our welcome.

Yeah, the bass player's suggestion to play a deep cut from Jethro Tull's "Songs from the Wood" should always be vetoed.