Time To Hang It Up?

[diablo175]

This has been covered in here but as our membership is getting on in years, it's becoming more and more relevant.

Mental acuity seems to be waning a bit these days. Gearing up for a 90 minute set at a charity gig tomorrow night, for which the band has been sharpening our chops and rehearsing our asses off. In addition to that, I've practiced the set at least twice a day.

And I'm still fucking up & forgetting shit.

We had a dress rehearsal in a rented studio on Weds. night so we could play at "stage" volume. I was alarmed at how badly I played that night. Missed notes, forgotten solo parts, etc. This was for 21 songs over 90 minutes. WTF is gonna happen when we start playing 3 full 50 minute sets?

What to do? Prevagen? Other nootropics? This shit can't keep up. I'm not gonna drag the whole band down because I can't remember my parts. If I can't find a way to stay mentally focused and remember my parts, it might be time to hang up the gigging/performing hat and focus on writing and recording original material again.

Getting old sucks. What's everyone's Alamo as to when to walk away from performing?

 

 

Edited September 20, 2024 by diablo175

[velorush]

(Other than Prevagen advertising) everything I read about Prevagen seems to indicate it's not the silver bullet it claims to be.

** PURELY ANECTDOTAL - I AM NOT A DOCTOR NOR DO I EVEN PLAY ONE ON TV **

Have you ever tried Creatine supplementation? I tried on three occasions but the first two times I failed to hydrate sufficiently and got random cramps (I never cramp, even when I was running marathons and riding 100+ mile bike rides). At any rate, now that I got the hydration piece right, I can't see getting off Creatine.

I started taking it for faster recovery lifting weights (Creating facilitates the Krebs Cycle), but the unintended consequence has been absolutely clearer thinking and almost complete elimination of procrastination (never was a huge procrastinator, but it's been tremendous there, too).

Here's an NIH abstract on the topic. There's tons of additional anecdotal evidence and interesting experiments ongoing with dementia patients.

If you're up for an experiment, there really aren't any drawbacks.  Creatine is the most researched supplement in existence, it's a natural chemical produced by the body and there aren't any negative side effects. It's cheap (not as cheap as it was before COVID, but cheap) and readily available.

[/sales pitch]  

ETA: here's a recent video from Tanner Shuck that talks about it (LANGUAGE WARNING FOR THE KIDS/GRANDKIDS)

 

Edited September 20, 2024 by velorush

[diablo175]

13 minutes ago, velorush said:

(Other than Prevagen advertising) everything I read about Prevagen seems to indicate it's not the silver bullet it claims to be.

** PURELY ANECTDOTAL - I AM NOT A DOCTOR NOR DO I EVEN PLAY ONE ON TV **

Have you ever tried Creatine supplementation? I tried on three occasions but the first two times I failed to hydrate sufficiently and got random cramps (I never cramp, even when I was running marathons and riding 100+ mile bike rides). At any rate, now that I got the hydration piece right, I can't see getting off Creatine.

I started taking it for faster recovery lifting weights (Creating facilitates the Krebs Cycle), but the unintended consequence has been absolutely clearer thinking and almost complete elimination of procrastination (never was a huge procrastinator, but it's been tremendous there, too).

Here's an NIH abstract on the topic. There's tons of additional anecdotal evidence and interesting experiments ongoing with dementia patients.

If you're up for an experiment, there really aren't any drawbacks.  Creatine is the most researched supplement in existence, it's a natural chemical produced by the body and there aren't any negative side effects. It's cheap (not as cheap as it was before COVID, but cheap) and readily available.

[/sales pitch]  

ETA: here's a recent video from Tanner Shuck that talks about it (LANGUAGE WARNING FOR THE KIDS/GRANDKIDS)

I have tried creatine in my more dedicated training years as a gym rat. My biggest issue with creatine was the impact it seemed to have on my digestive tract. I noticed some abnormalities in digestion. Never got back on it after a year or so of cycling through creatine use.

Might have to see if it still has those side effects- both good and bad.

 

[velorush]

Might try different brands. I am an Optimum Nutrition fanboi, so protein and creatine from ON, but when the prices kicked up, I tried various cheapie brands from Amazon - that didn't work out so well.

My son (22) got me on the convenience of the ON 2500mg capsules (two per day) rather than trying to down the chalky mess that never fully dissolves. It's more money but much easier than scooping and mixing at 5:30 in the morning.

[Brooks]

5 hours ago, diablo175 said:

Getting old sucks. What's everyone's Alamo as to when to walk away from performing?

Simple answer; when its not fun anymore. For whatever reason.

What kinda stuff are you having trouble with? Rock covers? Its always good to recognize your strengths and weaknesses, and work within them. My pal Dave & I did acoustic gigs on & off for ~15 years. Dave had problems remembering chords and arrangements, so we used to jettison bridges or other whole sections in tunes, strip 'em down to one or two progressions. Funny thing was Dave could remember lyrics all day long, hundreds of tunes, he said it was his drama schooling.

Edited September 20, 2024 by Brooks

[diablo175]

16 minutes ago, Brooks said:

Simple answer; when its not fun anymore. For whatever reason.

What kinda staff are you having trouble with? Rock covers? Its always good to recognize your strengths and weaknesses, and work within them. My pal Dave & I did acoustic gigs on & off for ~15 years. Dave had problems remembering chords and arrangements, so we used to jettison bridges or other whole sections in tunes, strip 'em down to one or two progressions. Funny thing was Dave could remember lyrics all day long, hundreds of tunes, he said it was his drama schooling.

Yeah, it's covers- 70's, 80's, 90's classic hard rock and metal. Big surprise   I've always struggled to some degree to remember all my shit. But while that's not uncommon, (for me) I now tend to have a harder time getting back on track when I do fall off. It sounds hella amateurish. And I don't particularly find it fun.

[velorush]

Stupid question from the Captain Obvious corner: do you think of the tunes in Nashville Numbering? Everyone's mind is different, so it may be easier for you to remember the song is a 1-6-4-5 (aren't they all) with a 1-5-1-5 bridge rather than remember G-Em-C-D and the bridge is G-D-G-D.

Obvious, but on the odd chance you haven't tried that it might help.

There was a Hillsong song we used to do live and I never could get the chorus right - it was absolutely random (didn't resolve). Numbers might have helped, but that was before I'd gotten into all that.

[diablo175]

15 minutes ago, velorush said:

Stupid question from the Captain Obvious corner: do you think of the tunes in Nashville Numbering? Everyone's mind is different, so it may be easier for you to remember the song is a 1-6-4-5 (aren't they all) with a 1-5-1-5 bridge rather than remember G-Em-C-D and the bridge is G-D-G-D.

Obvious, but on the odd chance you haven't tried that it might help.

There was a Hillsong song we used to do live and I never could get the chorus right - it was absolutely random (didn't resolve). Numbers might have helped, but that was before I'd gotten into all that.

I don't "remember" songs like that at all- I remember primarily through motor/muscle memory and to a lesser degree, sight- as in, where my fingers are on the neck. Reading cheat notes or even sheet music, tabs etc. is pointless- it becomes more of a distraction and only exacerbates the issue.

[Jimbilly]

switch to bass guitar

I had good luck with creatine from walmart, Six Star is their house brand I think, still under $20 for a 16 oz ish container when they have it (almost 3x what it cost pre covid).  Thanks for the reminder, I should have been taking it more regularly for about the past 2 years.  I never had any gut reaction, I could train hard, or bike race with it. I usually mixed it with a protein powder of some kind, mostly for recovery, used it regularly for a couple of years.

 Upping your B complex intake might be worth trying too, Bragg brand Nutritional Yeast is supposedly a very good natural source, I worry less at 4am when I have had some of that.

 

[Biz Prof]

7 hours ago, Brooks said:

Simple answer; when its not fun anymore. For whatever reason.

Ding Ding Ding!!!

[princeofdarkness56]

A heads up on creatine. It does wonders for recovery from the gym and seeing muscle gains. If that’s your thing make sure you cycle it. But, and this is a big but, When you enter your late 50’s and onward be aware it’s very rough on the kidneys. There’s research on that to suggest it’s likely. A lot of gym related products like protein powder and pre and post workout drinks have added creatine to those products. Even though I stopped creatine supplementation years ago I was getting a build up of it and I got kidney stones. Bad stones. The kind you can’t pass. I had two operations in two weeks for it. Not pleasant as they go right up your love canal. You wake up and it feels like someone dragged a cheese grater through your pipe. Bottom line, over 55 think twice about the creatine. 

Edited September 20, 2024 by princeofdarkness56
Spelling

[Jakeboy]

Concentrate on your originals. You have answered your own question. 

[RobB]

52 minutes ago, princeofdarkness56 said:

 Not pleasant as they go right up your love canal. You wake up and it feels like someone dragged a cheese grater through your pipe. Bottom line, over 55 think twice about the creatine. 

Holy shitsnacks! Thanks for your post. I just cancelled my order. 

Edited September 21, 2024 by RobB

[tbonesullivan]

One thing I will say... is to MAKE SURE you are hydrated. Dehydration can cause confusion, and as we get older we are more susceptible to this. A lot of people actually spend a fair amount of time not properly hydrated, an I can say that I used to get a lot of sleepy / confused issues before I had my kidney stones.

Now that I walk around with a 2 liter jug I have to drink every day, in addition to other things I drink, I'm a lot more awake all the time. Well until allergies crush my soul.

I'm also a big fan of practicing, keeping your mind engaged, etc. If you need to have music out... well.. do it. No one expects orchestral musicians to play everything from memory, so why should you?

Speaking of orchestral musicians, Jay Friedman was appointed as the youngest principal trombone in the history of the Chicago symphony at the age of 25... in 1964. He JUST announced his retirement, 60 years later.

[Cboss]

Try an avacado a day, there is some amazing synergy between these and brain chemistry

[DaveH]

3 minutes ago, Cboss said:

Try an avacado a day, there is some amazing synergy between these and brain chemistry

Does that include guacamole? Not crazy abut straight avacados...

[Travis]

I second the creatine, also consider fish oil/omega 3 fatty acids (EPA/DHA, I recommend 3k-4K mg/day for anti inflammatory effects)

Re: creatine…. I also have a very sensitive GI system and have had issues in the past. My current “protocol” is 5mg/day of Bulk Supplements Creatine Monohydrate (pure, no other ingredients, additives, fillers).
https://www.amazon.com/BULKSUPPLEMENTS-COM-Creatine-Monohydrate-Powder-Supplement/dp/B00E9M4XEE/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=19OPIUUIVXZMY&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.wVsgFrVkxhcbAaK816WqW_zGoGURRMW-PAqJe5yiegGL_r1EmedWYEoI93ucCRwqbnMnNcw3yOHXewEhlW7g_GtearmCSq_6jCNx_qlCjFItbgyb70CFhqEUImoMjAIXSbwBIeF_vDmevW8NUjqWiSyMhd2cIZRR9G-R8Z2lhNiKn0aqiKG8pMEdNuT4qDhw-RbKOgFo9keHQWrka0Ofgg.L6bB6GpHEL83W97h6o_kRoam0W-RgvoyWTH-OMfnA9E&dib_tag=se&keywords=bulk+supplements+creatine&qid=1726883114&sprefix=bulk+su%2Caps%2C131&sr=8-1

I put 5mg in a half gallon jug of water and sip on it all morning. The slower dose causes no GI upset where taking it all with a single glass of water would have me in the bathroom an hour later…

I also drink over 1.5 gallons of water/day…

Edited September 21, 2024 by Travis

[scottcald]

I have no take on the creatine stuff or anything medical, but for remembering stuff, when I had a group going pre-pandemic, I just had either a notebook or an iPad with basically a one page lyric sheet with the chords written on it off to the side to simply be there if I needed it.  Hell, all the big tours have lyric prompters for stuff they've been playing for decades and wrote!   Here's a pic of Alice In Chains and all 3 out front with iPads on the mic stands:

If it's good enough for Cantrell and the gang, I think it's OK.  

[BubbaVO]

3 hours ago, Travis said:

I second the creatine, also consider fish oil/omega 3 fatty acids (EPA/DHA, I recommend 3k-4K mg/day for anti inflammatory effects)

Re: creatine…. I also have a very sensitive GI system and have had issues in the past. My current “protocol” is 5mg/day of Bulk Supplements Creatine Monohydrate (pure, no other ingredients, additives, fillers).
https://www.amazon.com/BULKSUPPLEMENTS-COM-Creatine-Monohydrate-Powder-Supplement/dp/B00E9M4XEE/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=19OPIUUIVXZMY&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.wVsgFrVkxhcbAaK816WqW_zGoGURRMW-PAqJe5yiegGL_r1EmedWYEoI93ucCRwqbnMnNcw3yOHXewEhlW7g_GtearmCSq_6jCNx_qlCjFItbgyb70CFhqEUImoMjAIXSbwBIeF_vDmevW8NUjqWiSyMhd2cIZRR9G-R8Z2lhNiKn0aqiKG8pMEdNuT4qDhw-RbKOgFo9keHQWrka0Ofgg.L6bB6GpHEL83W97h6o_kRoam0W-RgvoyWTH-OMfnA9E&dib_tag=se&keywords=bulk+supplements+creatine&qid=1726883114&sprefix=bulk+su%2Caps%2C131&sr=8-1

I put 5mg in a half gallon jug of water and sip on it all morning. The slower dose causes no GI upset where taking it all with a single glass of water would have me in the bathroom an hour later…

I also drink over 1.5 gallons of water/day…

We’re running from the same playbook.   Only thing to add - make sure you get enough protein in your diet.  Real red meat, fish and chicken - not protein powder. 
 

https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/16/9/1284

Edited September 21, 2024 by BubbaVO

[Disturber]

I have always been absent minded. It is my personality. I am in awe with you, that you are able to do 21 songs for 90 minutes. I suspect they are all covers? Hell, I don't think I  ever have been able to do that without making practicing my full time job.

Me, I have always been like: (someone) "look, a squirrel", me: turns my head to look, and I've forgot exactly everything about what I was doing for the moment. 

I began to take a Q10 supplements little over a year ago. One each day. It really makes a difference for me on how I can remember things and stay focused. Don't know if it will work for everyone. But that would be my best advice.

And fresh air, nothing like a 20 minute walk before you need to focus on something, to sharpen your mind. I have done a lot of those IQ online tests for work during the past two years. I always take a walk before I start those. And I always score above average.

I hope it works our for you. I saw some vids recently on your Instagram of you playing some stuff on a Floyd Rose guitar. It was really great playing. So I know you are a damn good player. Keep it up!

[Gabe]

9 hours ago, scottcald said:

I have no take on the creatine stuff or anything medical, but for remembering stuff, when I had a group going pre-pandemic, I just had either a notebook or an iPad with basically a one page lyric sheet with the chords written on it off to the side to simply be there if I needed it.  Hell, all the big tours have lyric prompters for stuff they've been playing for decades and wrote!   Here's a pic of Alice In Chains and all 3 out front with iPads on the mic stands:

If it's good enough for Cantrell and the gang, I think it's OK.  

+1

[Cboss]

12 hours ago, DaveH said:

Does that include guacamole? Not crazy abut straight avacados...

Yes, any way you want to ingest a whole avocado.. spread on toast, guacamole,  cut up into chunks on top of eggs, salads, whatever it doesn't seem to matter

Edited September 21, 2024 by Cboss

[HSB0531]

  Oh boy, so it's been several years since my band played out.  Not because of getting older, but because of life getting in the way for the four of us.  In that time, the age thing has really ramped up speed.  We would be required to start our three 1-hour sets around 9pm and end around 1:00am.  When you're in your teens/twenties, that's not too much of a big deal, but in the late 60's it sure is.  Memory with this band's song list has always been bad for me because we always had a very diverse song list & usually from song to song. Never a theme or format set, or even a pair of songs by the same artist.  That for me, always made it hard to remember.  Like Billy Joel into T-Rex, or The Beatles into The Good Rats.  Regarding the iPad, yup, started doing that around 2015.  Mostly for the set list and the key that the songs start in.  Hydration: Yes! I get confused if I'm dehydrated. I drink about 3/4 to 1 gallon a day now, which helps keep my muscles limber as well as the brain working.  I also noticed that I don't function as well in hot weather, but excel in cold.  Avocados: About the only thing "bad" about them that I can figure is one type of bad fat. Otherwise they are a perfect food.  Guacamole? sure, now you have garlic, onions, tomatoes, and lime added to the mix. All healthy foods.  Getting older requires a lot more attention to the body and how we feel/what hurts/what doesn't work as well. And that's not fun.  I do things slower now a days too.  I Do miss playing out though (I say until I remember load out time and a 1-1/2 hour drive home😫)

 

[hamerhead]

Magnesium Citrate and Taurine. Taurine helps with focus.

I don't listen to country music, so when joining the country band I struggled to remember whole songs as I had never heard any of that stuff prior and couldn't rely on familiarity to fake my way through. And them country pickers can play! Don't sweat it. It got to where a shitty rehearsal meant a good gig because I was ultra-focused on the rough spots.

Plus - your audience could give a shit. You fuck up and what? Somebody dies? Nope. It absolutely does not matter. All they see is if YOU are having a good time performing. That shit is contagious. Your audience feels it. They see you having fun and they want to be a part of it. Focus there.

 

[Nan0brain]

Eggs and bacon for breakfast for that sweet hit of calories and choline

Fish was mentioned, I second that with sardines - prep them anyway you can manage to enjoy them. I mash em up in a beaker into what looks like wet cat food, dash of balsamic vinegar to cut thru the oil, and make a sandwhich

Avoid seed oils

Exercise, adequate sleep, hydration and practice

Perfect practice makes perfect.

You've got this.