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Armitage

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I'm looking at buying a cool car mid summer, so I'm researching early. Something I will be driving, not collecting, and no track driving etc. I'm thinking of a Dodge Challenger, Ford Mustang, Chev Camero or maybe a used Vet. I get the impression the Challenger doesn't get the respect as the others do. My first car was a '74 Dodge Charger so I was even interested in the Charger Hellcat, but I really didn't like the way it drove. It's truly a monster, but drove like a bus, IMHO. 99.9% of the time you're driving at the going speed... not rocketing forward, so I want something that feels good then too!

I took a Torch Red Vet LT3 out today, with about 6000 miles on it... and it was great, and absolutely like new. Every moment you held the steering wheel you felt you were doing something special. But it was a tiny bit rainy and it was pretty slippery. I suppose there are more practical tires then the stock ones... I don't mind having a car I cannot drive in the snow, but I don't want to worry about rain. The salesman told me people often change the stock brand tires about every 13,000 miles because they're so soft... ouch.

There's also things like a used Porsche Panamera, Porsche Cayman S or BMW 435i xDrive but I imagine these cars cost a load on the upkeep. I know nothing about them. 

I was reminded to watch out for certain Gott'chas... the example given was the top of the line Camero has ceramic brakes that cost a fortune to change. I don't do my own car work, so I don't want to be killed with maintenance moochers.  

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A coworker with a Porsche Boxster, not his first Porsche, bemoans the annual maintenance costs.  I've had a couple, way back when, and I would concur.  Expect them to "cost a load on the upkeep".  But they sure are fun!

Have you considered the rally-derivative road cars, like the Subaru WRX or the like?  Should be more of an all-around driver.

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My vote is for the 392 Challenger...lots of power, interior space, good-size trunk and a ton of fun to drive.  It can take my family of four with our stuff on a road trip comfortably.  Sure it won't hang with the Mustangs and Camaros in the corners but I am OK with that...it handles every bit as well as I will ever need it to (hopefully!).  Rain doesn't seem to be a problem...I see these cars out all year around.  Lots of info on Challengertalk.  I sold my P-car as I felt like I was getting gouged every time I brought it in for a service.  It was a beautiful car but I don't miss it.   Good luck in your search! 

 

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My first posting is about cars, go figure...  :lol:  I've got a 2014 Porsche Cayman and love it!  The maintenance costs may be a bit higher (can't imagine they'd be much more than a Vette), but the cars are second to none in quality and sheer fun!  I bought mine as a 6 month old car and saved some serious $$$, and there is nothing else like a Porsche.  I did lots of research and knew about the tire costs, general maintenance, etc. before I took the plunge.  So far I've only had it at the dealer for it's yearly maintenance with no issues.  Had an Audi TT before that which was a great car, but it's not a Porsche.  Mid-engine cars are the SH*T when it comes to handling and the car is very smooth riding for a sports car.  Haven't had a single mechanical issue so far and the few very minor cosmetic issues (I'm picky) that have arisen were repaired under the Certified Pre-owned warranty.  I do have a car to drive in crappier weather too (or band functions) so the Porsche stays inside.  YMMV...

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The new Mustang GT and Shelby GT350 really push all the right buttons for me. If I was made of money I'd have one in a heartbeat. 

The BMW M5 is a great car that'll pin you back in the seats. A buddy has one and man is it ever a fun ride. 

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My daily driver is a '01 Jeep TJ (Wrangler to the uninitiated) with the original old AMC straight four...manual transmission, of course.   :P   It's slow (though once it gets up to speed, it'll stay there all day), it gets lousy gas mileage, plenty of wind noise with the soft top...but it's reliable and sturdy, and fun!  I've had a few offers to buy it, but I always turn them down, even before they get to a price.  I'm gonna keep it until it dies...and Jeeps don't die.  B) 

A neighbor of mine recently bought a used TJ that has '4x4' stickers on it below the 'Wrangler' logo, and I just have to laugh every time I see it.  EVERY Wrangler has 4x4 capability already unless something's busted; that's like calling it a SUV, and no self-respecting Jeep owner that knows better would ever do that.   :rolleyes::lol:

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I'm an A Body GM guy - Chevelles, GTOs, 442s, etc.  I still have a 67 Malibu from my high school days silently awaiting my financial situation to get a bit more squared away so I can start a resto. 

I think a fun project would be finding an 85-87 Monte Carlo SS in good shape and restoring it with something like a 383 stroker. 

ETA - I didn't catch that you were looking at new stuff.   For something new, I'd definitely go with a Vette myself.  I like Porsches, but I'm in the "There's 911s and everything else" camp I suppose. 

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Depends on what you want to spend...  You can get a great deal on a C5 Vette right now and they're great cars.  The new Mustang GTs are nice at fun to drive.. Plenty of performance packages as you desire.

Plus one on the Boxters.  The Audi TTs seem to do better-my two best friends have them.. One uses it as his daily driver, the other guy drives his after his SUV and his bicycle.

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I picked up an '06 C6 Vette Coupe with 3LT option package in Victory Red with 40k miles about a month ago at a very reasonable price.  Traded in an '01 Miata - Talk about a difference!!!  So much more comfortable and power!

All Vettes are a bit unwieldy on wet pavement if you're not used to them.  Just need to take it easy off the line and don't goose it and you're fine.

Re: C6 issues -- Check the harmonic balancer for wobble.  That's a common problem that'll cost you about $1100 for a dealer to fix.  If you're hearing a belt chirp, chances are the balancer is going (Bought mine from a dealer and noticed it after I got the car home.  Had them repair it at n/c -- Lucky!).  Also, keep in mind that the original equipment Bose sound system (with or without Nav)  just plain ol' sucks.  I'm budgeting $800 to replace my head unit with a new Kenwood that will provide Bluetooth/USB that's also missing from my '06 system.

There's lots of other info available at www.corvetteforum.com .  Have fun! 

 

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As a Mustang guy I'd like to recommend the latest one for it's drivetrain, but after 3 years still haven't warmed up to the looks. It's like 3 design teams were in separate rooms. The roof and rear look alright....

The latest Corvette (and I'm not a GM guy) looks great and goes like stink. If it has a 'rain' or 'wet' setting it might help keep the power under wraps. But as a daily driver, climbing in and out every day would get old after about a week.

Love the looks of the Challenger - both new and old - and it's got enough power, but the new one is a big heavy beast compared to the old one (the Mustang and Camaro have the same problem).

Test drive all the ones you're interested in. Make a detailed list of any little thing that bothers you about each. Multiply that by 1000, because that's how much it'll bug you Every. Single. Day. Buy the one with the shortest list.

But that new Jag F-type sure looks sweet.....

jaguar-f-type-coupe-33.jpg

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Critical question is how many miles a year do you really expect to put on this car?  If its 20-30k miles a year (like me) then up keep like tires and fluids are just the price you pay and will be substantial in any ride.  Hands down for enjoyment of driving the Porsches will be on another level but I would expect the maintenance to be highest.

Im a BMW guy (135i with 400hp/455tq to the wheels, but I do use my turn signal and dont park like an ass so dont shit on me!) and that would be next in line behind the P cars.  Great handling and superb engines (inline 6 | 3.0 litre).  Euro cars are really not that expensive to maintain, particularly if you can do basic stuff like brakes yourself.  And all BMW's include free oil | fluids | brakes for the first 4 years so that should be an incentive even for a 1-2 year old bavarian.

Sometimes after a stressful 12 hour day at work I find alot of enjoyment sliding into a supportive leather seat, shifting into first, and having a little ME time!  (OK that sounded douchey)

In the end the dollar per smile ratio is a personal choice but if it makes you happy I say do it!  You only live once!  Whatever it is, get something that makes driving an occasion, feels special every time you get behind the wheel.

As for pony cars, Id take a mustang in a heartbeat over the camaro or challenger | chargers.  Ford really got the latest gen mustang right!

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Yep, drive them all you will probably easily know it when you drive it. As far as the pony / muscle cars go current ones. 

1. Camaro - you don't have to get the carbon brakes so don't let that scare you off. The current gen handles well and really goes, the interior is miles better than the last gen, but they are very hard to see out of so that may bug you, it does me, also almost no trunk and the rear seats are virtually useless. Might as well have a Corvette

2. Challenger - you can lease a hellcat for ~$550.00 right now, as a toy that's CHEAP. but I agree dont' care for the way they handle and they are much bigger than they should be.

3. Mustang - this is the one I would choose if you've got the spend then the GT350 is amazing, and I believe they can be had for MSRP now,  but the standard GT with performance pack is no slouch it's a great all rounder handles well, good power all the tech toys, etc.... and there's tons of aftermarket if you want to mod. I came very close to picking one up.

My summer toy now is a E92 M3 which is pretty much a pony car that really handles 414hp V8  that revs to 8400 rpm. Lots of fun, but comes with more $$. 

Another thing to consider is that a motor with more torque especially down low will typically be more fun on the street than motor you have to rev the piss out of to make power (my M3 is like this). 

Good luck and enjoy the search. 

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10 hours ago, LucSulla said:

ETA - I didn't catch that you were looking at new stuff.  

Same here.  I had to re-read the original post after finally figuring that out. 

My only advice would be to go out and put some miles on some of these.  I recall around 1988 getting the opportunity to take a friend's new-ish C4 Corvette out for a night on the town.  I drove it for about twenty minutes and returned it to him - my gosh what a terrible place to be.  Horrendous ride quality, unbelievably uncomfortable seating, just a terrible experience (and I grew up driving '50's and '60's cars I'd built myself)! 

The map is not the territory.  Cars may look great and have rave reviews in the magazines, but time in the seat is the only way to determine if a car is a good fit.

As far as maintenance and upkeep, I'd point you to the Edmunds True Cost to Own calculator

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15 minutes ago, JES1680 said:

My summer toy now is a E92 M3 which is pretty much a pony car that really handles 414hp V8  that revs to 8400 rpm. Lots of fun, but comes with more $$. 

Another thing to consider is that a motor with more torque especially down low will typically be more fun on the street than motor you have to rev the piss out of to make power (my M3 is like this). 

 

Ha, You have my unicorn!  E92 with the last N/A M engine ever built!  The idea of hearing that thing sing while shifting at 8k rpm must be glorious!

Back on track since he is looking at new vehicles I still say go for the mustang!  A current GT is probably the best bang for the buck in all american cars made.  Go get one and then show us some pics!

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As long as you are talking about German cars (possibly used) and all that goes with them....Check out a dealer with a good reputation and selection of "Certified Preowneds". There are tons coming off lease. Often 3 years or less in age. The performance ones (at least those offered as CPOs) are often low mileage and excellent condition. And come with an extended warranty. The original owners TEND to be adult and often use them for "weekend fun".

I had no real plan to buy a newer Benz, but bumped into one locally. Night and day difference versus the ones of a decade or so ago. Bat outta hell when you want it, easy to drive around town. Three years old, 17,000 miles and 40% off original list. The better half liked it so much that we went back and found one (different model, but virtually the same 400+ hp drive train) a week later at the same place. NOT the style you would expect her to prefer, but she was sold the second she saw it, let alone drove it.

My experience is to deal with the "internet/fleet manager" and cut out the nonsense that often comes with strolling in the front door unprepared, even at a "good" dealership.

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1 hour ago, JES1680 said:

Yep, drive them all you will probably easily know it when you drive it. As far as the pony / muscle cars go current ones. 

1. Camaro - you don't have to get the carbon brakes so don't let that scare you off. The current gen handles well and really goes, the interior is miles better than the last gen, but they are very hard to see out of so that may bug you, it does me, also almost no trunk and the rear seats are virtually useless. Might as well have a Corvette

2. Challenger - you can lease a hellcat for ~$550.00 right now, as a toy that's CHEAP. but I agree dont' care for the way they handle and they are much bigger than they should be.

3. Mustang - this is the one I would choose if you've got the spend then the GT350 is amazing, and I believe they can be had for MSRP now,  but the standard GT with performance pack is no slouch it's a great all rounder handles well, good power all the tech toys, etc.... and there's tons of aftermarket if you want to mod. I came very close to picking one up.

My summer toy now is a E92 M3 which is pretty much a pony car that really handles 414hp V8  that revs to 8400 rpm. Lots of fun, but comes with more $$. 

Another thing to consider is that a motor with more torque especially down low will typically be more fun on the street than motor you have to rev the piss out of to make power (my M3 is like this). 

Good luck and enjoy the search. 

Agree 100%!

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2 hours ago, tomteriffic said:

Talk to Ree-shard.  He has either a Challenger or a Charger (I forget which, caffeine insufficiency) and has had it for a bit.

 

Oh, you mean this thing?

10606062_10206099239380469_1266895104170

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I can't comment on the bigger engine packages - I got the V6 SXT Plus package because I wanted the look and overall vibe of a retro pony with an engine that straddled the line of getting me in trouble and keeping me out of trouble. Don't discount that V6 package - it has plenty enough heat for normal street driving conditions and gets great gas mileage compared to the bigger blocks.

The car itself ... I could not be more comfortable in or with it.

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If we're talking modern muscle, I think either of the three retro-modern pony cars would satisfy. I love so many of the classic '60s/'70s muscle cars from all manufacturers, but my favorite is still one of the most exotic: Ford's hemi-headed  NASCAR big block (seriously detuned for street use) surgically implanted in a badass Mustang fastback.

8aa79640494c5f37e93b95edcb452f26.jpg

 

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16 hours ago, serial said:

Depends on what you want to spend...  You can get a great deal on a C5 Vette right now and they're great cars.  The new Mustang GTs are nice at fun to drive.. Plenty of performance packages as you desire.

A Car & Driver article a few years ago singled out the C5 as a particularly good candidate for budget rallying. A C5 never fails to turn my head given its simple, flowing design. I'm particularly partial to the yellow ones (and the red ones and the blue ones, and ... ) As for good deals, here's a 2003 coupe within a few miles of me (Greater Seattle). Asking $23,987 with 22,496 miles on it. That's about 45 miles a week for a little over 10 years. There are several other similar deals in the area. 

769f753ad11e44ab96576bb78791da55.jpg

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6 hours ago, Jeff R said:

 

Oh, you mean this thing?

10606062_10206099239380469_1266895104170

I can't comment on the bigger engine packages - I got the V6 SXT Plus package because I wanted the look and overall vibe of a retro pony with an engine that straddled the line of getting me in trouble and keeping me out of trouble. Don't discount that V6 package - it has plenty enough heat for normal street driving conditions and gets great gas mileage compared to the bigger blocks.

The car itself ... I could not be more comfortable in or with it.

Glad to see someone speak out in favor of the smokin' V-6s. This one has 24 valves, makes 305 HP. I remember when you couldnt buy a 300 hp car in the USA. It has an estimaated 19/30 mpg city/hwy rating and is the only current Challenger that weighs in under two tons (3894 lbs.). That's a feat in itself given that it shares its platform with the Charger and Chrysler 300. The Hellcat weighs a whopping 4448 lbs. Of course, it has 707 hp, but just about any time you'd be on a winding 2-lane, the V6 SXT would be more fun. Cost of ownership would be way less too. 

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20 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

A Car & Driver article a few years ago singled out the C5 as a particularly good candidate for budget rallying. A C5 never fails to turn my head given its simple, flowing design. I'm particularly partial to the yellow ones (and the red ones and the blue ones, and ... ) As for good deals, here's a 2003 coupe within a few miles of me (Greater Seattle). Asking $23,987 with 22,496 miles on it. That's about 45 miles a week for a little over 10 years. There are several other similar deals in the area. 

769f753ad11e44ab96576bb78791da55.jpg

I've always loved the lines on a C5 -- I think this style has the best lines of all the models, especially when painted in the deep blue metallic color (Don't know the official name).  The C6 looks are fine.  I don't care for the C7 -- Too sharp and aggressive for my eye. 

Bonus - You can get a great deal on a C5 (easily sub-$20k) with low miles and in great condition. 

The only downside of the C5, IMO, is the cockpit is so low, you feel like you're draggin' yer ass on the pavement and it's a royal PITA to climb in/out of the car.  This was the deal breaker for the wife when we were in the market earlier this year.  The C6 cockpit sits a bit higher and is easier to get in/out, the clutch is A LOT EASIER to use than the earlier designs (important consideration for Chicago rush hour traffic).  I like the dash layout and seats on the C6 better too.

Oh yeah -- The LS2 engine in my '06 has 400 HP -- about 50 more horses than the base LS1 in the C5...  

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Jeff R's Challenger looks fantastic... it's the same color as my '74 Charger was! But I want something more powerful, for a second "special" car.

And I don't know why younger guys don't buy up all those slightly older cars... that yellow vet looks beautiful, girls would kill to be in it... and at $23,987 US with 22,496 miles on it? Depending where you live that could be your only car... I know more then a few guys who buy these cool 10 year old plus cars and get special car insurance that's pretty cheap if you only put like 5000 miles a year on them. I think it's called Silver Wheels, mainly for collectors, but you could get two really cool cars for the price of one common new car... and maybe a beater.

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